Violin Forum/Message Board

Russell · Junior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Posts: 19

I have a few questions for anyone who would like to answer, why strait grain spruce for the belly ? has anyone ever used white or yellow pine ?or maybe fir with some wild grain in the top ?Why use the traditional methed of varnish why not spray lacqor or something else for a finish?Lac is used on high end acoustic guitars and they sound great why not a violin?I personally am not into making a clone I want my violins to be original and not a copy of what someone else made, strad had his ideas I got mine, anybody wanna .......... me yet lol thanks for looking Russ

Chet Bishop · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject:

Yep...all those things (and more) have been done. You are certainly free to follow your heart. But the reason examples of those things aren't around to see (much) is because they simply don't work as well.

One thing you could do, to cut down your experimentation time, is to buy a kit, and try making several different tops for it. The pine will probably sound the closest to the spruce, then the fir, then other things...just guessing. The ratio of density to stiffness (as I understand it) is the issue.

Varnish is another matter. I will let someone better qualified respond on that.
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pmccombs · Member Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Utah

Russell · Junior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Posts: 19

I read a book a few years ago and they talked about wood called Deal and the book said pine and deal was the same thing , this was a violin making book I got from the local library a real old book at that , don't remember the name however They advocated French polishing as the final finish for a violin , a long process I might add .seems to me it would take awhile for an oil finish to cure as a lac finish would cure very quickly, I might be all wet here but I like to know why this or that is the law so to speak.The scroll hum ya seen one ya seen them all ? I myself like a carved scroll maybe a lion or a face one violin I made has a horse head on it or I should say almost horse head lol Would a hollow neck improve sound? questions question lol thanks for looking . Russell

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject:

ctviolin · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: questions

Chet Bishop · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:33 pm Post subject:

Don't know whether it is correct, but I remember hearing some time ago that the word "pine" had been used in a generic sense in many of the early books, and that, in fact, spruce was the wood really being used.

We are pretty specific nowadays about a lot of things, and now people bicker over which specific species of spruce, and the exact place it originated from, etc.. The problem is, they are correct--it DOES matter. Not all woods respond the same.

It won't hurt anything for you to make a fiddle out of pine and cherry, for instance. But you will invest just as much work that way as it you had used maple and spruce...and if it doesn't sound good, you will not know whether it was because you did something wrong in making it, or used the wrong materials. Once you have successfully made violins that sound the way you want, when you change the recipe, so to speak, you will know why it sounds different. Just a thought.

I'm quite sure you could make a pine and cherry (black walnut, whatever) violin, with a horse's head and get a lot of pleasure in the learning process.
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Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:42 pm Post subject:

OK, I can play this game.

Here are three things I don't like about my car:
1/ It can get flat tires
2/ It runs on expensive gas
3/ It looks boring

So, I have three solutions:
1/ Make the tires from solid iron = no flats
2/ Fill the tank with water = cheaper than gas
3/ Paint the thing like a circus tent = not boring.

So, what are the specific things that you don't like about Strads (or any normal violin, for that matter, but since you mentioned Stradivari, let's use him) that you think should be improved, and how would what you want to do improve those things?

Remember that people don't buy violins for the cool factor, they buy them to play, so these need to be things that will result in a better playing experience, not a worse one.

If we're just talking cosmetics and Violin Shaped Objects that no one wants to play, then of course that's a different discussion.
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pmccombs · Member Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 87 Location: Utah

Russell · Junior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Posts: 19

I didn't say I don't like a strad violin and didn't say a strad could be improved , im asking questions as to why use this and not that , ive never seen a strad in real life and probly never will . Ive built a lot of pedal steel guitars through the years and before I attempted my first I researched and found out everything I could before I started and by asking a lot of questions I felt that was important it saved me a lot of time and money as well as grief, that's why im asking questions.Now back to the violin ,maybe I should ask what makes it sound good? and why? whats the difference between a strad and other violins built by the old masters? Whats the difference between a strad that a modernday person might built and the real thing ?

Lemuel · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject:

It would be futile to find common ground in this sort of discussion if the desired end or objectives are different.

As Michael mentioned, the desired end for a violin is to be played (with quality), and that's really what most of
the members in the forum (some for many years) have been looking for.

There's nothing wrong with making a violin for the looks only. It's like building a house, making it pretty on the
outside, but missing the insulation, plumbing, electrical circuits,...etc. It cannot be inhabited, but people would
look at it.

...and it's ok to ask a lot of questions, but some like the ones you (Russel) are asking can't be answered in just
one post.

In regards to building the violin differently, you might want to look at this recent thread. It's a good summary
for those who are considering to build a violin for playability:

http://www.violins.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1585

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:00 pm Post subject:

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:24 pm Post subject:

Russell, as Lemuel said, what you've asked is a gigantic question. Violin making has a 500-year tradition, with all sorts of experiments tangled up in that. Violin sound is pretty much defined by what the old guys did, and we all try to do that, with varying degrees of success.

In addition to that, every single aspect has been worked on and perfected over literally centuries, until standards have been evolved that really do represent what seems to work the best. So when you burst in with what you think are new ideas. . . well, most of that was sorted out a long time ago. The violin is the only thing I can think of that's so very closely defined and doesn't leave a whole lot of room for new ideas.
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Russell · Junior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2013 Posts: 19

Thank you all for your replys, I learned a lesson here , not all cars are red are they.Ive seen a few violins posted on here and I must say they are beautiful top notch workmanship , if you will please, stand by . Very Happy

Russell

ctviolin · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:50 pm Post subject: