Violin Forum/Message Board

[Wolverxaxx]

any tips on how to execute or play a mordent?

[Lemuel]

This is really a matter of finger independence. What is more than likely happening to you is that when you are trying to play it quickly, you wind up lifting or lowering more than two fingers at a time.

As much as I find these exercises quite boring, they nevertheless has helped me tremendously.

Sevcik School of Violin Technics Op.1, Book 2

[Wolverxaxx]

thank you. i tried searching for videos on youtube but didn't obtain any results.

do you have any sources where i can learn that online through videos?

it's kind of hard for me to find those books from the place i come from.

just to share for those who're looking for the book u mentioned
http://www.google.com.my/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.el-atril.com%2Fpartituras%2FSevcik%2FSchool_of_Violin_Technique_Op1_Book2.pdf&ei=-5jCUPfVLs3PrQfJiYDIBw&usg=AFQjCNG9e2mG5PvH0frAEdRpWgDLnNaGqg&sig2=KRDAlbYpGyguPBaoZLRwGw

[Lemuel]

I don't have any video sources either.

Sevcik, Opus 1, Part 1 is also very good.

You can obtain it here.
http://www.amazon.com/Sevcik-Violin-Studies-Technique-America/dp/0711995192/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355026817&sr=1-1&keywords=Sevcik+Violin+Op1+Part+1

[Wolverxaxx]

thanks for the help again. i managed to get a hold of the book. but then it's all on patterns and i don't see any mordent sign there

[Lemuel]

I'm assuming you got book 1, Opus 1.

Let's just take page 2 of the book for example.

The first set of 3 measures begins on the A string. It has a simple
pattern of 4 notes per measure, with the first three notes going up and
the fourth note going down. The fact that it is not dealing with a mordent
is clear. However you will find out (especially for beginners) that as you
move to the 3rd measure where only the 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers are
exercised, you will find it increasing difficult to move them
independently, especially with faster speeds.

A mordent or trill is nothing more than a rapid succession of two or more
fingers in a short time span. If you are able to move your fingers in
rapid succession over long time spans, the short time spans become
quite simple.

At the moment it is not simple because your fingers lack independence
(lifting up or down one finger tends to affect the other fingers), so it tends
to come out in a "blur". The Sevcik exercise are meant to help you
develop this independence.

If you look closely at the other 3-measure sets, you will find all sorts of
different patterns to work with. I can surely vouch that upon completing
these exercises, you will find many pieces for which had found difficult
become much easier to play.

[Lemuel]

Try this exercise

Place your first finger on any string. (In first position, it would be either
F# on the E string, B on the A string, E on the D string and A on the G string).
Then while keeping the first finger down on the string, move the second finger
up and down on the same string. Make sure the first finger is not lifting or
moving in any way. In effect you are training the first finger to not be affected
(independent) by the movement of the second finger and vice versa.

Increase your speed as you feel comfortable and the first finger is not moving
at all. Fast speeds for long time span in this manner is called a trill. A
mordent is a essentially a rapid single alternation (just lifting the second
finger up and down once).

For the 3rd and 4th fingers, you'll need to do similar exercises as above.
For example you can:

- Hold the second finger down on the string while moving only the third finger.
- Hold the third finger down on the string while moving only the fourth finger.

Although you can achieve finger independence to some degree this way, the
Sevcik book is still better.

[Wolverxaxx]

thank you so much Lemuel. i'm already trying out the exercise you suggested. it seems like my fingers are too stiff to run around the strings

there's another thing that i would like to ask. say, if the mordent symbol is on the G note (D string,3rd finger) so which 2 notes should i play?

[John Cadd]

It`s all on Wikipedia. You can hear it too .They show the 2 squiggly shapes over the notes. The one --without a dash through it ---is played --121- . The one ---with a dash through it ---is played 212--. That`s also called a Praltriller. Don`t let it turn into a trill . It`s not a second rate trill. Mozart liked them.

[Lemuel]

My apologies, for some reason, I did not see your answer to this post.

In direct answer to your question, the two notes played are G and A (A flat or A sharp) depending on what
key you are playing. Most mordents are the upper mordent (with 121 as amezcua mentioned).

Stiffness is often confused with tension, traceable anywhere from the fingers all they way to the back of
the shoulder blades. Check anywhere along this line for tension. Put the bow down for a moment, so you
can focus on the left hand.

If you are placing the 3rd finger on G on the D string, then the upper mordent would be performed with
the 3rd and 4th fingers in first position. The 4th finger (pinky) is the weakest on the left hand and takes
the most time to develop independence. If you find your pinky straight and not rounded over the finger
board, this is a problem. Please take look at a couple of my online articles and videos.

http://www.violins.ca/info/violin_left_hand_position.html

For now, to try a simpler mordent, place your 1st finger on G on the D string, and perform the mordent
using your 1st and 2nd fingers. Your left hand will be in 3rd position in this case.

[Lemuel]

In addition to above, I find the exercise of trills very beneficial to executing mordent, because trills is like doing a
series of mordents (like you would do a series of pushups). If you can do trills, you can do mordents.

Start out slowly, then pick up speed as you go, and stop the moment you feel tension, because tension will cause
you to become stiff.

[Wolverxaxx]

deepest apologize, i didnt knew i had a reply here. the way im playing my mordent doesnt sound the 1 on piano, i mean the tempo. is this normal?

[Lemuel]

I'm not sure what you mean by the expression "1 on piano". Mordents are played at 2 to 3 times the speed
of the original tempo (time signature) of the piece you are playing, depending on how one would like
to express it.

I'd like to help you get established on the mordent.

First of all, do you understand the importance of having rounded fingers over the fingerboard, as illustrated
in this article and video clip? Before you practice anything, this foundation should be established. Without it,
tension and stiffness are inevitable.

http://www.violins.ca/info/violin_left_hand_position.html

Secondly, do you understand that for the more common mordent (the squiggly shape symbol without a
line through it, played 121), the note that is displayed is the note you start the mordent on? So for example,
if the squiggly shape is over the note G on the D string (3rd finger in first position), then, you would play the
mordent as follows:

121 mordent pattern = 1 (3rd finger on G) 2 (4th finger on A) 1 (third finger on G)

Thirdly, that you play the above pattern in a faster tempo than the normal tempo of your music?

============================================================================
Thoughts

I'm assuming that you are a beginning player. If this is the case, then practicing mordents and trills with your
3rd and 4th fingers should be attempted after you are able to do it with your 1st and 2nd fingers. The 3rd and
4th fingers take the longest to establish strength and independence, because they are the weakest. That is
why I advocate Sevcik exercises (the book you bought). They are boring, but they have helped me a lot.

Can you try the following simple mordents on the A string, and let me know if you are successful?
How fast can you play them?

121 = 1 (Open A string) 2 (1st finger on B) 1 (Open A string)

121 = 1 (1st finger on B) 2 (2nd finger on C) 1 (1st finger on B)

If you have played them relatively fast, then you have successfully executed a mordent. If you repeat
the above patterns continuously in fast tempo (i.e. 1212121212), then you have successfully executed trills.

Please let me know if I'm clear.