Violin Forum/Message Board

[Oded Kishony]

Regarding the issue of the varnish changing the sound. I apply a primary coat which reduces the effect of the varnish. I also know what to expect acoustically from my varnish, so I adjust accordingly.

Oded

[Oded Kishony]

Just thinking out loud now. First let me say that there are as manyways to make violin as there are people.
The question that occurs to me is if you are trying to change the sounded of your violin then why choose to do it in such a way that you cannot know what you are changing?

Oded

[actonern]

Hi Oded:

I only have the vaguest sense of your tuning methods, and I think I'm right that you haven't gone into any detail about them, but I'm interested in how much and in what ways you are able to shape the instrument with your methods.

In other words, is it like the fat guy that loses a lot of weight... his voice changes a bit, but it's still unmistakably "him" or is it possible to change the type of tone too?

Best regards,

E

[Oded Kishony]

I would compare it to a series of sound post adjustments that are cumulative.
Althougfh occasionally there can be very dramatic changes the core sound remains the same.
Again, the qustion is: would you voluntarily forgo adjusting your sound post? I wouldn't.

Oded

[mikemolnar]

Darnton makes a good point that voicing is not needed if you did everything right. I lean this way too. However, I do not think voicing is a purely modern notion. My jury is out about how Strad et al. closed the body. I just don't know. But the stronger argument is, as I said, you don't need it. So why argue point this further?

Ernie makes another great point: What the hell do you do once you have the body open? (LOL) Sam Z. seemed exasperated over the difficulty to predict results when making an adjustment. Anyhow, it appears to me that this is a time sink. At my age I have little left to waste.

I have been thinking hard about this and lean to declaring it a dead end for me. However, that's my sort-of-educated conclusion.

Mike

[Oded Kishony]

Of course the same comment can be made for sound post adjustments-if you made the instrument right it wouldn't need any adjustments.

Or if you made the instrument right you'd be Stradivarius two.

It's circular logic. If I knew everything I'd always be right.

Unless I chose to be wrong

Oded

[Michael Darnton]

What's circular about saying that if you do things right they come out right? It sounds like a very direct statement of the objectives of process to me, and pretty much the way things are done in the real world.

Of course the world of violin making rarely resembles any real world. . .
_________________
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[actonern]

Not to disagree with anything said about doing things right, but I must say, after the effects of monkeying around with those bridge tabs (yep, them again!!!), that I'm also inclined to think things can be tweaked to make what is already good better... sort of like tuning the carbs on an already fantastic sports car...

Put a different way... I expect a fantastic Strad can be set up with the "wrong" strings post position etc and made to sound a poor shadow of its potential?

Best regards,

E

[Oded Kishony]

[Michael Darnton]

[Oded Kishony]

[Michael Darnton]

It's a funny thing. While I was working at B&F the guy who runs Mark O'Connor's fiddle camp came in. We set him in a room up with a Strad, and he was in hog heaven. He said that he'd be absolutely delighted to have an instrument like that. At my own violin-making summer camp we have someone who's part of a Grammy-nominated Cajun band. I have some video of her blissing out singing and playing a nice Strad. I really don't think she would turn it down if it was offered to her. Johnny Frigo was a regular B&F customer; his needs weren't any different from what the CSO concertmaster wanted, except that he needed a pickup on his exceptionally-nice instrument.

What makes a good instrument isn't all that esoteric.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[actonern]

In the piano world its certainly been my observation that musicians of any stripe head for the big expensive Steinway or other similar grand if they can afford it. Unless, that is, one is looking specifically for an 1870 western saloon scene for a movie.

Billy Joel, Elton John etc... if the acoustic piano sound is desired, they all seem to go for the same choices classical musicians make.

In my own little way, I've had opportunity to play truly outstanding pianos by the big names. By "little way" I mean I took piano lessons throughout my youth... so I'm at that level where Mendelsohn's songs without words yes; Liszt B minor sonata no!

Every time I sit at the bench of one of those 9 foot marvels I get goose bumps. The sound is so obviously better, I just can't imagine for what musical reason someone would prefer anything else.


E

[Lemuel]

There appears to be three sample groups, not just one....

"good instruments", "good players" and "good listeners"...

Michael, in another thread, I also mentioned, like Oded, about 'good' means different things to different players and listeners.
Then you posted that it was "a more relevant problem to replicate the behavior of Cremonese violins than the "sound".

I'm concluding that the people you are working with have all been able to hear the Cremonese sound, and that's why
you say "I increasingly find that not to be the case for the people I work with". Is my conclusion correct?

Or are you mostly referring to a "good" instrument being able to respond in all the ways a good player desires?

[Oded Kishony]