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Baroque bow making

 
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mikebee
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Joined: 03 Mar 2011
Posts: 13
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Baroque bow making Reply with quote

As an instrument maker, but a newcomer to bow making I would like to make my own Baroque viola bow.

Can anyone tell me where I can obtain drawings and detailed info.?
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mikebee: You need the book "Meisterwerke der Sammlung alter Musikinstrumente by Rudolph Hopfner". It has more details than anything else. Unfortunately it is expensive, out of print, and in German! Apart from that, however, it is excellent.

Ed.
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book seems to be available for all of about $50 after shipping from Italy to USA is factored in:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=2347143567&searchurl=an%3DHOPFNER%252C%2BRUDOLF

Don't be fooled by "Quantity available: 1". I just ordered one and it's still available. I doubt they manually manage stock levels and would need to log in and mark in out of stock by hand.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops! That's not the book!

At first I was surprised since I paid about $200 for mine. Then looking closer I find that there are several books with almost the same title - the one about bows is this one, apparently available here:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=9472814985&searchurl=an%3DHOPFNER%252C%2BRUDOLF

I hope you can cancel that order!

Sorry.

Ed
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA Smile I can not tell you how much I am laughing at myself. I know, strange reaction.

Well the book I bought translates to Masterpieces of Ancient Musical Instruments. It sounds quite interesting to own.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure its a great book, but just not about bows! The bow book comes with a folder of drawings and plans of about 30 old bows and is well worth having if you can find a copy.

The author of both those books is the curator of musical instruments at the Museum in Vienna. He's a very helpful person. When I visited there last year I sent him a list of the bows I really wanted to see and he pulled them out of the museum and had them all laid out on a table for me. I had to sign a detailed agreement (written in German which I don't speak) to be allowed to handle them and to wear white gloves all the time.

I'd be interested to hear what you think of the other book.

Ed
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out the book had already been sold prior to my purchase, but inventory hadn't been updated. So the seller just cancelled my order. Kinda bummed I'm not getting the book I wasn't planning to buy Smile

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 275
Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the bow book truly OP? When I contacted the museum a few years ago they were still selling copies directly.

I got access to one through a university ultimately.

It's too bad it's still so difficult to access good drawings for early bows. I have been lucky in getting some makers to part with drawings on occasion, but I hear that people don't always succeed with such requests.

Ed that's very exciting that you got to see those bows! Did you make it to Salzburg by chance? Cool
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Andres! As you said, things have perked right up around here! How about showing some of your bows? I believe you have made a few?

Yes I got to Salzburg on the same trip - saw the museums and so on but the music season was over.

I think the bow book really is out of print. The museum has a small bookshop but no sign of that book. The packet of drawings that comes with it is well worth having.
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly I didn't document several bows that people were waiting for, and other photos are on a backup disk somewhere for now. There's always this picture from the other forum (pre-polish):



I have had this one in process for a while. I am more interested in earlier models so this one languishes, but I should finish it and see what it's like. (Image a bit large so I'll leave it a link to keep the thread from getting over-wide.)

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3063/042013bow.jpg

While I'm at it, I confess to being rather pleased with the scraped surface on the stick:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5443/scraped.jpg
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andres Sender wrote:


While I'm at it, I confess to being rather pleased with the scraped surface on the stick:




So would I be.

Great work Andres, that bow is gorgeous. it's good to see you around.

Craig T
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes that's very nice. Scraped with what may one ask?

And what about bows with clip in frogs - do you find players who like them? I find that players are interested but will not buy anything unless it has screw adjustment, even if that is not historically appropriate.
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much Craig. Nice to be here.

Ed--I'm not selling bows these days, so the market doesn't matter. I'm always a little surprised at the resistance to clip-ins. Tension management is not difficult with a clip-in and a few slips of leather.

Although there are folks who say that clip-in bows have a different sound quality I think the root of my preference for them is the integrity of the design--all things being equal, it's more organic to have a single piece of wood that locks in place.

About the scraping tool--more later. Wink
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
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Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andres Sender wrote:

Although there are folks who say that clip-in bows have a different sound quality I think the root of my preference for them is the integrity of the design--all things being equal, it's more organic to have a single piece of wood that locks in place.

About the scraping tool--more later.



Cool, I'm always interested in specific luthier tools - (even though many times they end up just being normal tools, adapted slightly for our own particular needs)

Another thing that I had not really considered before, is the FACT that a single piece of wood locking in place (as a "frog") does indeed make sense from an ergonomic, simplistic and mechanical point of view.

Eliminating the tension point (and mechanical complexities and possible weaknesses) of the screw and eyelet altogether... interesting concept.

One that makes me think a bit about what's considered normal - and what might actually be optimal...
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Last edited by ctviolin on Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry - dup...
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