Violin Forum/Message Board

richardian · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:46 pm Post subject: Violin holding position?

Hi,

Spent about two hours last night trying the violin back rest every which way imaginable and watching it fall off again and again. I can't trap the violin between my lower jaw and shoulder, it doesn't work. Accordingly, I will never be able to progress with the finger board -

but

Several years ago I damaged my left shoulder in a traffic accident, this might explain why I can't support the violin on it? The accident has lowered the shoulder slightly.

so

Am wondering whether I ought to customise the back rest to make it sit more squarely and comfortably across the shoulder / collar bone?

It is an electric violin with an eccentric form, which probably doesn't help balancing it. But I tried a 'real' violin about a month ago, and I'd say my one is so-so for an absolute novice. I am sure a virtuoso could really work out on my one. Even unplugged, it is loud enough - more than load enough - to practice on, once I installed a fresh set of strings, I was quite surprised how loud this uplugged instrument actually is.

Any advice on supporting the violin gratefully accepted please! Smile

Many thanks,

Ric

Ps. also fitted the fine tuners and I relax the bow when not in use.

DonLeister · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:55 pm Post subject:

Typical violins have a shape that works well with your 'back rest' or what is usually called a shoulder rest. Also violins have an edge that helps the shoulder rest stay on.
I don't know anyone with a violin like yours so I have no practical experience to pass on to you.
Do you have a violin teacher? One should be able to help you. Either a teacher or visit a violin shop should do the trick.

Lemuel · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:34 am Post subject:

I also have no experience with electric violins such as yours. However...

It is actually possible and better to play without a shoulder rest (Mind you, I understand that other people will
still find it better to play with a shoulder rest). For years, I played with one until a professional violinist in New
York (AntonPolezhayev on this forum) convinced me it was possible to play without one. You may read our
discussion below and goes on until the end of the thread.

http://www.violins.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=799&start=45

I have a long neck. It took me a month to get rid of the old habit, and now three years later, it's now feels more
unnatural to play with a shoulder rest. I found out that it has to do with a combination of the angle (towards
the left) the violin resting on the collarbone, how high the violin is held up with the left arm, and the natural
weight of the head upon the chinrest to prevent the violin from sliding off. You will have to experiment yourself,
as everyone's physique is different. Avoid the temptation to lift your shoulder or clamp down your head on
the chinrest as this can cause unwanted tension besides soreness under chin and collarbone. Take frequent
rests to establish right habit, if not you will develop another bad habit.

For your information, shoulder rests were not used for centuries until the beginning of the 20th century. Many
famous violinists have played without shoulder rests. Take a look at these video. Although the back of the
violin is never shown, some angles you will be able to see that if they were using shoulder rests you would
see the feet of shoulder rest at the edge of the violin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcqTxDsrMyo&playnext=1&list=PLED46765CFE6CBC90&feature=results_main

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FabL8qnyFOU Starting around 40 seconds into the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvV4A6lz-0w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNLqKrWe5T0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8uR7P0Qnqw

richardian · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:08 pm Post subject:

Lemuel · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:09 pm Post subject:

Looks good Ric...

richardian · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject:

richardian · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:46 pm Post subject:

Lemuel · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:33 pm Post subject: Help for violin left arm fatigue

Here are a few of tips that has helped me a lot in regard to left arm tiredness:

1. Avoid gripping the violin with your shoulder and chin.

Surprisingly, the violin is very light (I don't know about your electric violin). The natural dead weight
of your head should be enough to hold the violin resting on your collar-bone. Once you start to clam
down on the chinrest with your head, the tension spreads like wildfire down your neck and then throughout
your arms and fingers. It can cause serious injury in the long run if not addressed.

2. Avoid pressing so hard your fingers on the violin fingerboard.

It takes very little finger pressure to get a sound from the violin, but many put way too much pressure.

3. Lean slightly backwards to balance the suspended weights of the violin and your left arm.

If you can visualize a see-saw with equal balances on both ends, leaning slightly backwards will balance
the weight of left arm in the front. Try it without the violin. See for yourself that as you are lifting
up your arms, you have to lean backwards, and as you are putting your arms down, your whole body
comes back to vertical position.

4. Move around while you play.

This is something you don't hear often, but this one has really helped me. Have you ever seen violinist
move while they play? Not only does it help to dispel any tension, but also to relax and maintain suppleness.

4. Keep shoulders down.

Raised shoulders is a hard habit to break. It's a habit formed because in the beginning, many are afraid
that without it, the violin would fall to the ground. However as stated in 1., the natural dead weight of
the head is sufficient to hold the violin in place. Raised shoulders will definitely contribute to left arm tension.

richardian

Lemuel · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:33 am Post subject:

Yes, most definitely.

For me, the word "hold" has gradually been eliminated over the years to be replaced by the word "rest". So
instead of "holding" the violin with your head, the violin is supposed to "rest" on your collarbone, while your
head "rests" on it. Instead of "holding" the bow, the bow is supposed to "rest" in your right hand. The
natural curl of your fingers on your right hand forms when you lift the arm from your elbow up. This natural
curl is like a cradle where the bow frog can "rest" in.

All of this is explained in "The Twelve Lesson Course, A New Approach to Violin Playing", by Kato Havas,
published by Bosworth & Co. Ltd., London.

richardian · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:58 pm Post subject:

John Cadd · Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:59 pm Post subject:

Richardian I left a message in your box .

richardian · Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:50 am Post subject:

Thanks to all.

I have stopped violin until I can come by an acoustic instrument. Electric violins are a great innovation but acoustic violins are light-as-a-feather and easy to support, so all those issues are solved before they arise. Will I survive removing the A grade strings from my electric to an acoustic - replacing the electric with a B grade set please?

Bests.