Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index Violin Forum/Message Board
Provided by Lemuel Violins
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Violin making tools
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cmkaco
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 23
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing about spoon gouges is the shape doesn't lend itself to longevity. If you look at that tool, you will see that it tapers in very quickly, and there is not much working length there, compared to a straight gouge. So, you are paying full price for a tool, and every time you sharpen it, it is getting narrower and narrower, and soon, it is gone. A straight gouge will give you longer life. I think you only need a spoon gouge if you have to get into a very tight space, behind another element of a carving.

Bent gouges are another item my teacher did not like. They put your hands at very odd angles to the work, and the edge which means you are almost pulling the blade.

Like I said, this is all related to regular woodcarving, and it could be different for violin making, so if a more experienced violin maker (not a first time maker like me) tells you different, then listen to him or her.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Darnton
Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's a bent gouge, then it's not useful because it has you pushing in a different direction (down) from the direction you're cutting in, which is a waste of force. Those are made for hollowing and tight spots, but a violin isn't deep enough to make one useful.

If it's an incannel gouge that looks like a spoon, the type that's often sold as a violin maker's roughing gouge.... well, those are more than useless. They put your hand so low relative to the work that if you're working hard (as you should be) you'll quickly get bloody knuckles. That one's fine for delicate work like cutting down a post patch (and that's the only thing I use mine for.)

My roughing gouge is a 1"+ or so #7 in a long lathe tool handle. I go directly from that to a 1" #3, and would prefer something even flatter, if they made it. From there I go to a plane. The other one that's handy is a 3/4" or 5/8" #7 for the c-bouts. As a general rule, at any point in the process you want to be using the biggest, most aggressive tool you dare.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com
my summer project: http://scvmw.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
cmkaco
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Posts: 23
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashley Iles makes the 2 1/2 gouges designed by Chris Pye. They are almost flat.

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/indextool.mvc?prodid=IL-CP-212.XX

How about for scroll carving? What are the most useful sizes?
Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Michael Darnton
Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll check tomorrow. In the general sense, I start with a 13mm #3 and I think I have four or five gouges, each one about 2mm narrower and deeper than the previous one. So it would be something like 10mm #5, 8mm #7, 6mm #9. Something like that, anyway. There's one more in there somewhere, maybe a 4mm #9, I think.

I got Dastra gouges with octagonal handles, and cut off half the length of the handle, then thinned the gouges quite a bit on a belt sander (working sideways), since they don't do heavy work. I have one that I didn't thin, and that's the only one I won't use for anything--it's just too heavy for light work.

Then there's one special gouge you have to have. It's about 6mm, half a circle, sharpened on the inside. It's used like a drill to clear out the inside of the peg box. Very fast, and safe.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com
my summer project: http://scvmw.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 538
Location: Ellesmere Port

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The arching gauges always seem very limited for guiding the shapes. I prefer the method shown in the Sacconi book which are like relief maps. You have to draw the outlines on the joined wedges first. It removes the intermediate shaping stages and goes straight to the planned shape. It has to be worked out beforehand though.
I thought it would be useful to talk about the way some tools are used. Especially the block plane for trimming end grain.I find I rarely use it in a straight forward pushing action. Mostly it is rotated with the back end keeping still and the front swivelling sideways.It slices the wood and there is no chance of a sudden bump to disturb a corner block glued to the mold. Gouges are twisted in a rotating way as they are moved forwards.Rarely pushed straight without the twist.
I use a large curved (lengthways ) gouge but that just gives a suitable angle to fit an extension to the handle like a pistol grip.so the hand position is just like a fist and the blade is in line with my arm.The twist is very natural like that. Always keep the outer edges of the gouge blade above the surface .If an edge goes below the surface some of the wood is being split rather than cut. If any wood is split it will be a permanent weakness if it remains part of the instrument.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 538
Location: Ellesmere Port

PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep a few substandard chisels handy in case your wife asks you to fix the garden gate .There`s no temptation to use your sacred best tools for such messy jobs. It`s a kind of crime to use any violin tools for odd jobs around the house. That`s how I feel about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 538
Location: Ellesmere Port

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We ought to mention old fashioned open razors. I still have a few with German writing on the blades. They were left over from the First World War . One came from my Grandfather who served in the Boer War . He was a bootmaker .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 538
Location: Ellesmere Port

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will class the holding gear for keeping the plates still as a tool . Recently I have used a block of reconstituted foam ( It`s just odd bits all stuck together and it pretty firm stuff ) for the plate support. It`s 2 inches thick. I have used an oblong piece but now realise the ideal shape is circular. So one 15 inch ( edited from 18") diameter circle of reconstitued foam ( don`t use soft foam ), with the "raised " belly /back section outlined on it. Not the whole outline , just the part 3/4inch in from the edge that raises up .The belly /back top surface will already to shaped .This support is for the internal plate cutting and thicknessing job .
Roughly cut out a dent in the foam to allow the arching to fit so the upturned plate edges lay flat. Then wrap the violin plate in cling film . The idea is to squirt silicone sealant in the rough dent in the foam and make a good impression with the sealant. Have a good guess how much sealant will make the mould . Crossways strips will be best . You won`t need a complete surface . Quarter inch gaps will be fine . Then lay cling film over that and gently press the violin plate down over the sealant. Lift it off to see how the fit looks and add some more wherever it`s needed . Just squirt some more under the cling film . Wiggle it around till the plate settles flat. All safely protected by cling film. Leave that to set overnight . When you open it up allow some more drying time for a day or two .
The best part of this is the plate will not need clamping and can be lifted up for checking thickness any time you like. The wood is not stressed with cutting pressure. It does not slip when you cut and the top surface is not damaged . The circular shape will sit inside a semicircular holding shape made of wood , like a specialised Bench Hook. That has a section that fits down into the clamp to keep it all still . Any angle of work is then evenly supported. The grain of violin bellies forces you to adjust the cutting direction to avoid splitting and this eliminates all the irksome clamping adjustments . I avoided fitting a raised edge near the violin plate as that might create accidental damage to edges and corners if not seated accurately . The plate and foam can easily be lifted to shake shavings into the waste bin. Maybe use a separate bin in case any small planing tools end up in the bin too .The flat surface of the foam should be coated with silicone too to make it easier to keep clean .It is less likely to collect splinters .
Hope that helps . I think the circle will have a pleasing image as you work .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
John Cadd
Super Member


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 538
Location: Ellesmere Port

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m editing the design as I go along now. I converted the action of my oblong foam shape by gluing it to a 15" disc of plywood. That keeps the centre of the plate about 7 inches from my body. The base of the disc was coated with rubber glue and left to dry. The matching surface below was also coated with glue and left to dry.There is no slipping around in use and I can change the orientation for carving inside the plates very easily .
The lower surface has two 1.5 inch high ridges for the disc to rest against. One on the left and one at the back. Nothing on the right side or front .The "undertray" Is cut back on the right front corner to follow the circular curve and just a half inch shorter to make it easy to lift the 15 inch disc when you want to clear shavings away . I started the belly carving from the flat inner surface using a gouge and that`s the most pressure needed making a belly. I`m very pleased with the way it works .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
antonio
Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Croatia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: scroll saw Reply with quote

Hi, I was wondering, is it better for a violin maker to buy scroll saw or band saw?
Both can cut wood at 90 degree angle. But, can both of them be used to cut violin necks, which are about 5 cm thick? Scroll saw looks more precise...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Michael Darnton
Moderator


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 1123
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Band saw, definitely. I don't think I've ever been in a violin shop that had a scroll saw.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com
my summer project: http://scvmw.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
NicholsaGent
Junior Member


Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:D Hi all. As a new member I will be interested to read many of the posts about violin making. I am afraid my experience is limited as I have only made three. These consist of two trapezoidal instruments and one tin one. I made these while in America and then brought them back when I came back to UK. A thoroughly enjoyable passtime. The tin one, made from old Coleman fuel cans, sounds, as one might expect. The trapezoidal ones are more throaty and I actually sold the first one of those a while ago to a lady in the south of England. The other one hangs on the wall. I do not play the violin although I can pick out a tune with difficulty. If any one is interested in seeing pictures of these I would be happy to oblige and can email pictures.
Nick Gent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group