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GarySeelen
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada
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 Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: Mystery Varnish |
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Hello everyone,
I've been a bit of a lurker on this board, and have decided to post.
My great-grandfather was a Luthier from Bath, Ontario, Canada named Cyril Smirle, Active (I think) in the late 80's and up until his death in the late 90's.
I believe he marked his instruments with R. Cyril Smirle, or Cyril R Smirle.
I personally know very little about violin making, and have spent some time dabbling with guitar building. A few years ago my grand father found a box containing a couple dozen bottles of Cyril's varnishes, which are a variation of W.M. Fulton's Old Italian Varnish recipe.
I have a raw cello and a raw viola of Cyril's that were never finished. Ideally I'd love to use the varnish we found as they are "family heirlooms" of sorts. My biggest problem is that I have no instructions on how to ensure the varnish cures properly!
My Grandfather recalls the Cyril using a UV Box, but couldn't give me any specifics regarding length of time, intensity of light, etc.
Has anyone on here used a WM Fulton varnish before? How do I verify that the varnish is still good (the bottles are all still liquid)?
Thanks in advance for any help 
-Gary Seelen |
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rs
Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Holland, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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Try the varnish on a scrap of maple. If it doesn't dry in a few days under UV, try adding some "Winsor Newton Liquin Fine Detail" (not the original Liquin) to the varnish right before you want to apply it. My wife (an artist) got me hooked on that for drying varnish. I add about 10-20 drops for about a teaspoon of varnish. The formula I am currently making takes a long time to dry without it. Liquin Fine Detail works better than any drier I have used without adding color or substance to the varnish.
There are several good tips on this site for UV drying if you search the word above. I don't use strong UV, just a small one in a cabinet away from dust. The UV I use now is very weak and it works fine for me.
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Randall Shenefelt
Last edited by rs on Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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GarySeelen
Junior Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2014
Posts: 2
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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That's great! I shall try that! Thank you so much!
-Gary |
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actonern
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 444
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| Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sunlight works just as good, but exposure to sun usually involves flying specks of dirt... |
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ctviolin
Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| actonern wrote: | | Sunlight works just as good, but exposure to sun usually involves flying specks of dirt... |
Yes it always does.
I use the sun here in New Mexico for drying varnish. The specks usually are very light particles, carried by the wind - and there can be many of them.
- and they tend to sit on top of the drying varnish - they usually come out fairly easily when I use a specific grit to rub out the surface of the varnish down to where I want it, for one thing, to get rid of the surface quality of "newly dried varnish" look...
So, I have never have bothered with UV bulbs, or anything like that, since the UV around here is free and available on a daily basis...
But beware - there probably ARE going to be particles on the top surface that must be removed.
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Look,
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FiddleDoug
Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:45 am Post subject: Ground coat |
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If these varnishes are tinted, you'll need to apply a ground coat first to seal the surface. This can be as simple as a light shellac wash, or you could research some other methods. Always do some testing on some test blocks before committing an instrument to something that you're not familiar with.
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Doug Wall
www.wallindependent.com |
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John Masters
Junior Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| GarySeelen wrote: | That's great! I shall try that! Thank you so much!
-Gary |
Be careful. I have Fulton type varnish in polyethylene bottles mad in 1985. Every so often, I make a sample and put it into new bottles. I have to thin it every time, and it continues to make the bottles collapse by air pressure.
This stuff NEVER quits taking on oxygen. One well-known maker used it and found that after a dozen years or so, the film shrank and fell off in chips the size of a postage stamp. This was not checking, it was alligatoring.
The only advantage I could see was that it had color, although not a nice color. (I did not use iron) I think it is better to use a good varnish and figure out the color some other way.
What do others think of Fulton varnish ? I have used it 50-50 with a good quality alkyd, and that seems OK. |
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