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Tap and die set

 
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Nick Walker
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Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Tap and die set Reply with quote

Can you guys recommend the appropriate tap and due set for threading the frog to receive the eyelet? I'm about to invest in some metal work tools.
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whatwasithinking
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Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 208
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nick,

Shouldn't need a tap. And you'd only want a die if you want to make your own eyelets, or buy unthreaded ones. Just drill the hole into the frog a little smaller than the shank on the eyelet. You can get a tighter fit that way, and save money on a tap. Do you know someone who uses a tap?

Bob

Edit: just noticed that Roch Petitdemange used a tap in his video. So some makers do this, obviously. I think the potential issue is that if you tap the hole to exactly match your screw, the ebony might subsequently shrink, causing the eyelet to loosen.
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Nick Walker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense. I thought I saw Ed taping his as well, in the Thread of Ed. Maybe not.
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whatwasithinking
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should go back and read through Ed's thread again. It was very instructive. He attaches the eyelet on page 5.
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'Thread of Ed'! Sounds good!

If you are investing in metal working tools you really need a set of numbered drills, 1 through 60. Each one is so slightly different from the next that you can always find the one you need.

For the eyelet you should get a scrap of the same material that the frog was made of. Then drill some holes with a series of drills from the set. Put a bit of vaseline on the eyelet and find which hole will take the eyelet and hold it very tight. That's the drill size to use.

Different materials seem to need a different drill - ivory needs a slightly larger drill than ebony, and bloodwood or cherry need smaller drills. Turning the eyelet in does require a pretty firm grip on it with a parallell sided pair of pliers. I keep looking at it from all angles to make sure it is going in square.

Ed
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Nick Walker
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ed. It is now on my shopping list.

Do you use the half round spade bits as well? It seems that some prefer these over the twist bits due to their stability or lack of travel, especially for drilling the stick to accept the screw.

Bob, Ed or anybody else?
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Ed Shillitoe
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Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't use the half round bits, but maybe I should. To start the hole I use a very short centering bit, then put the drill bit up in the chuck as far as possible. To have the bit wandering before it bites in is a definite problem.
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Nick Walker
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I will get the numbered set and a few select half round bits. I also found some forming blocks that will work for ferrules that aren't crazy expensive.
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whatwasithinking
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Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 208
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed,
Thanks for the excellent description of your eyelet-fitting process. I'll try that. I've ordered a new set of numbered drills. My old ones weren't all that nice.

Nick,
I think the trick on drilling the screw hole in the stick is to keep the hole straight, as you progress. If you use a twist drill bit, you're going to need something to keep the hole going straight. A jig, or a lathe, or something, but it's really tough to do it by hand. If you place the stick in your lathe chuck, then you're either going to have the hole in the center of the stick, or you're going to have to shim the stick until the hole is where you want it. Ed's method of placing the bit into the chuck as far as possible will start things off correctly.

A spade bit eliminates the problem of the twist drill going off-center, as you can adjust the direction the bit is taking as you progress. Once a twist bit begins going off center, it just wants to keep going that way, and it's difficult to correct it. It seems like a half-round bit with a cutting surface going up the side of the bit might have the same problem, but I've never tried one. You can make spade bits from drill rod, and then you'll only have a cutting surface down at the end of the bit. Maybe these small spade bits can be purchased somewhere, but I haven't seen them. I'll have to admit that a twist bit is faster, but it can also get you into trouble more easily!

Bob
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