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How early is grafted scroll or heel graft necessary?

 
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Lyndon Taylor
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:49 am    Post subject: How early is grafted scroll or heel graft necessary? Reply with quote

You are correct that 1798 is post baroque, but incorrect that the neck graft change over occurred at the end of the baroque, when it actually occurred smack dab in the middle of the classical era.

The median point for the change over is closer to 1820 (and as late as 1850), on average, as early as 1800 but practically never before 1800 from what I've been taught, its not that some pre 1800 necks weren't long enough, its that they were set at a different angle and usually nailed on or one piece neck top block, I think we can state pretty clearly that the morticed in neck did not exist in 1760 or 1770.
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Dave Chandler
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paganini was already concertizing in 1800, do you suppose he played "Il Cannone" (which he possessed at the time) on a boroque set or modern set? Must have been an interesting period for a violinist
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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually the Mantegazza brothers are attributed with being the first to "modernize" necks, and developing the idea of grafting, starting around 1780. I have seen violins by "good" makers as late as 1835 with original baroque-style necks, so obviously there was quite a wide spread of time during which baroque and modern necks co-existed. Some experts consider that the same overlap occurred with bows, suggesting that the famous makers were making baroque bows, probably on specific request by older musicians who didn't see a need to change, up to around 1820.

From what I can tell, what's sometimes called classical style setup starts around 1780, with a more modern profile neck still mounted on the outside and having a somewhat tapered board. There is, for instance, a Balestrieri, with this setup as original, with an incredibly aggressive neckset angle.

The general answer, then, is as Lyndon says, it's a big smear, not an immediate switch happening all at once.
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Lyndon Taylor
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Chandler wrote:
Paganini was already concertizing in 1800, do you suppose he played "Il Cannone" (which he possessed at the time) on a boroque set or modern set? Must have been an interesting period for a violinist


According to the curator for the Cannone in Cremona, Bruce Harvey, the Cannone was originally in baroque set up with baroque fingerboard (which may be preserved??) and I believe the conversion to modern occurred quite late, possibly after Paginini's death(I seem to remember something about the conversion being 1830,1840??). I'm not absolutely sure, but that's what I remember reading.The Cannone has a heel graft instead of a neck scroll graft, but would probably have still had a nailed on neck when Paganini started playing it.

Michael, wouldn't what started in 1780 have been more of a transitional(classical era) set up than a full modern set up??

I don't think violins were commonly made brand new with a so called "modern" set up till after 1800. Not to say that there cannot be rare exceptions to that rule that are earlier.

For instance I had a genuine Hopf violin that was probably made somewhere 1810-1820, the neck angle was modern, so it took a modern style flat fingerboard (not wedged) but the neck was still slightly shorter and the neck was still a one piece neck top block construction, the common neck attachment for Klingenthal instruments in the 18th century(and most south German instruments). This is a good example of an instrument that is transitional, neither baroque or full modern.
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Last edited by Lyndon Taylor on Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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