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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:42 pm Post subject: Craquelure |
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Here's the finish on a cheap ramshackle "Rogeri" violin I picked up in Fla... price was right, but the craquelure ?? was what caught my eye.. It is excessive, but is this really the varnish or just built up dirt & smoke?? If a desireable instrument like this would show up , what to do with it?
... and I'll get some practice too at replacing the eye of a scroll!
Cheers, Mat |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I have seen that once before in a violin that was in a house fire. I walked the owner, who was a violin repairman, through fixing it by hanging it horizontally in a sealed box with a tray of alcohol. Over a few hours, the fumes softened the varnish and then it flowed out. After some polishing and retouch, it looked like nothing had ever happened to it!
If you try this, it's important to keep careful watch over it, and to constantly turn it like meat on a spit on the grill, so that all spots are equally exposed, and so that the varnish doesn't suddenly melt and flow off one spot. The idea is to keeping it turned regularly, and to pull it out "just in time", while the varnish is liguified and flowing, but not so late that it is so liquid that it runs off.
There's a pretty big risk that you will just end up with a mess if you try this, also. _________________ new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com |
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Lemuel Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 515 Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Michael, that is truly amazing. |
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Dave Chandler Super Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 691 Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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So, if it flows being exposed to alcohol fumes, is it a spirit varnish? But if this "stuff" is over an oil based varnish what is flowing? Reminds me of a hundred year old doorknob. _________________ Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill
"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Michael, your advice on this is worth many times the price I paid for the instrument! ... Thankyou!
What I wondered about was that the areas where the craquelure has worn off, the varnish seems nice and smooth and hard. Seems that maybe the underlyning varnish is oil based and the craqueled part is spirit based or the reverse. I'll have to flake off a chip of each and test it to see.
Thanks so much for your comments! ... Mat |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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It may just be something like the violin was in the sun, and only one side got heated. That would be my guess.
This process works with either spirit or oil varnish. After 20 or 30 years, oil varnish becomes alcohol-soluble, too. That's why you can french polish it.
If you want to read up, look for the Pettenkofer process for treating oil paintings. That's where the idea came from. Violin shops have done this for decades very successfully. It apparently doesn't work as well on paintings as they initially thought if did, because the oil and pigments separate and layer, but violins don't have the huge pigment content that paintings do, and paintings have very little or no varnish content, so that's a different animal.
Anyway, the worst risk is coming back and finding a puddle of varnish on the floor of the box if you forget that you've got a violin in the box. And it seems like that wouldn't be a big deal with this violin, so it's a good place to learn. I learned how to do it on a cello that would be worth, today, about $150,000, so I was watching rather closely. :-) _________________ new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Michael for that. I tested the varnish and the cracquel, and you are right, both are alcohol soluble.
Incidentally, on this violin, the craquel is pretty much all over the violin even on the ribs, the only exception are the areas of usual wear from handling and playing, although it obviously has not been played for a long time.
Cheers, Mat |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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On another thought, this violin has a wood screw and washer installed from the inside of the upper neck block into the neck, but I am suspicious this is an "after market" addition... or maybe not?
Secondly, the finger board is attached with two square iron nails evenly spaced lengthwise from the top of FB into the neck... first time I have seen that.
So, for curiosity... how do these factors date the violin?
Cheers... Mat |
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Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Chicago
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Dave Chandler Super Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 691 Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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Mat:
Waiting to see how this project came out. Photos if successful? _________________ Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill
"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Mon May 23, 2016 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ha!... have not even started... but will get at it this winter... and will post!
Thanks for your interest! ... Mat |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dave Chandler wrote: | Mat:
Waiting to see how this project came out. Photos if successful? |
Yeah, me too!
This will be a pretty cool thing to see. _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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