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How do I better understand the scales?
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Benedict White
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Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing the arpegios is useful too.

You look at a piece. It is in say, G Major, so you know that only F is sharp, and as you know the scale backwards and forwards, all you have to do is worry about the timing.
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ode to Tragedy wrote:
I have no problem doing the scales.

What are the advantages that doing the scales has anyway?

I don't mind doing them but I just haven't had the motivation so if you tell me why it may impel me to do them more regularly.


It is quite possible (as I've seen) for musicians to know their instruments so well (where the notes are) that they intuitively know what to play regardless of what key you ask them to play it in. They don't think in terms of theory or number of sharps or flats. Their ears have just been highly trained to match the key to certain notes on the violin.

Studying scales helps you to understand the language of music which is necessary if you want to sight read or compose music.

It is similar to someone that knows how to speak English or any language, but they don't know how to write or read it.
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: understanding scales Reply with quote

Message for Lemuel .. I used to be on the Violinist.com forum and left a blog there called "A Visual Guide to Scales and Keys " . Everything else I wrote on that forum was deleted due to a ( permanent ) misunderstanding .
I can`t see any harm in transferring the blog to this forum . But you may be able to decide that . Many players found it helpful .
See if you can find it .
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: understanding scales Reply with quote

John Cadd wrote:
Message for Lemuel .. I used to be on the Violinist.com forum and left a blog there called "A Visual Guide to Scales and Keys " . Everything else I wrote on that forum was deleted due to a ( permanent ) misunderstanding .
I can`t see any harm in transferring the blog to this forum . But you may be able to decide that . Many players found it helpful .
See if you can find it .


What a surprise! John...how's it going with you these days! Where have you been all this time?

Please tell me where I can see your blog?


Last edited by Lemuel on Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:21 pm    Post subject: understanding scales Reply with quote

Hello Lemuel
I have dropped out of playing due to various causes .Eyesight and getting used to spectacles is one. Then vertigo from Menieres . That used to come and go at random .Then we bought a big house that needed lots of renovation . Lath and plaster work on ceilings . Messy and tiring but satisfying . A bit of everything that opposed practising the violin . Plus getting old . My hands are small too so I made a silent violin out of Oak with a short scale and calculated the most awkward chord sizes in Bach sonatas . I made a lot of progress with that oak violin .
I made full sized violins originally for my own use and the big obstacle was varnishing . I was never satisfied with the colours . They remain as if frozen in time capsules . I will get that sorted out and put them in a nice music shop .I don`t like the idea of person to person dealing . Not being able to hold a conversation is the problem .I went to an open air concert as a spectator last month . The string group looked fine but the sound (to me ) was quite weird .Scratchy . high pitched and not pleasant . Open air conditions maybe made it worse . That was depressing . I used to play in orchestras but the door seemed shut for me that day .
You must know of "Violinist .com." Just print that and then "A Visual Guide to Keys and Scales ".
It fuses ---- music notes and --- a violin fingerboard.
Thankyou for your friendly enquiry .


Last edited by John Cadd on Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:35 am    Post subject: scales Reply with quote

Rather than edit the previous post I ought to tell you the main reason I stopped contact with Violin forums was that I went deaf.
The strange thing is I forgot to mention that (in the previous post). As it stands I am profoundly deaf in my left ear. The right ear struggles with a hearing aid but that is not enough to hear my wife who has a fairly quiet voice .I catch a few words now and again . My listening is via a hearing loop from the laptop . I must have adapted to this as I forgot to mention it.
One feature of going deaf is noticing musical phrasing much more than tone quality , Intonation or pitch perception is just as acute as ever. I always hate a piano tuned in Equal Temperament.
With one ear silent there is still plenty of sound or noise from the other one , but the definition or detail in words is lost, which makes phone calls impossible .
There you are . I filled in some important gaps .
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! What a detailed update. Thank you.

I cannot imagine (nor likely understand) what you are really going through.
But I'm impressed that despite many limitations to deal with you're still holding strong.

In regards to Menieres, this maybe of interested to you:
http://www.doctoryourself.com/ears.html

Welcome back.
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: Scales Reply with quote

Lemuel , Thankyou for the reference . I bookmarked that . I noticed the list did not mention the Epley Manoeuvre . It`s very simple to get loose crystals back in place .Tiny crystals moving in the inner ear balance canals will give you vertigo . Last week I was always drifting left when I wanted to walk straight . It cured that in one 5 minute session . I always say if you have a disease pick one that`s not painful . The first time I experienced Menieres it felt as if I was on a fast roller coaster , clinging to the bed mattress as if I would fly off into the air . Then I thought , this is silly. I`m not going anywhere . Easy to say lying down though . On a staircase it would be different . Walking was impossible . It used to come and go .Sometimes a few years completely back to normal .
Early days I had the vertigo as I was riding a CBX 550 Honda bike . And I had to fill up the tank at a petrol station on a roundabout . That was confusing . Before I knew what I had .
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Oleg Vostyakov
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Joined: 13 Sep 2021
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you can find some practice decisions here- https://musescore.com/hub/museclass it is a good tool for learning and practice.
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Lemuel
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Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oleg Vostyakov wrote:
I think you can find some practice decisions here- https://musescore.com/hub/museclass it is a good tool for learning and practice.


Thank you for posting this.
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: scales Reply with quote

On Violinist .com I left a blog about A Visual Guide to Scales and Keys . Anyone can download it . It`s the only version that cuts out all the confusion .
Then avoid practising different keys for a while and stay with one key at a time for a few days . The left hand will develop a "feel" for each key when you do that . It`s a good idea to concentrate on keys that have few or no open strings
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Lemuel
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Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:48 am    Post subject: Re: A Visual Guide to Keys and Scales (Blog by John Cadd) Reply with quote

I found the link. Here it is:

https://www.violinist.com/blog/jonjoseph/20153/16658/
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:29 pm    Post subject: Scales Reply with quote

That`s it . I worked it out to cure my own confusions . Many players found it helped .
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Henrik Stromberg
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Joined: 07 Sep 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Solna, Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemuel wrote:
Ode to Tragedy wrote:
where C is depends on whether I press the scale up or down so it;s relatvie.

There's 15 white keys.

Can you recommend me any exhaustive yet approachable books on the subject so I can take my time learning it.

I bought a book on music theory hoping that would help but it only offers the explanation of what symbols mean not a proper explanation of the scales.

I want a good book with a nice writing style as the ones I've read so far are incredibly dry like they were written for a robot.


Ode, I haven't forgotten about you. Weekdays are usually very busy for me as I have to work.

Since correct hearing is key to our discussion and learning scales, it would be important to normalize your keyboard to the correct pitch.

I recommend you go to your local music store and pick up a foldout of Alfred's Basic Keyboard Chart. It is the full length of a regular piano keyboard (88 keys). Tape it on the wall near your keyboard. It's a good aid for learning about any scale. I have included a small section of the keyboard below.



The violin open A (marked in red) shows where on the music staff and keyboard it is.

Here is my violin open A. This note is used by orchestras as reference note for all instruments to tune to. It would be good for you to learn to hear it and memorize it, especially for the violin.

http://www.violins.ca/audio/Violin_Open_A.mp3

Make sure your piano is set so that the A above middle C has the same pitch as the above recorded open A. Although I can tune my violin most of the time without a tuner or piano, I check the piano's A from time to time.

In regards to reading and workbook material there are three things I have used, all very good.

The first is Mel Bay's Theory and Harmony for Everyone by L. Dean Bye which is easiest to read and covers the basics.

The second is called Keys to Music Rudiments (Boris Berlin, Molly Sclater, Kathryn Sinclair). You can also get student workbooks No. 1 to 6. It is recommended by the Royal Conservatory of Music. This is also easy to understand and is much more comprehensive. It is published by Gordon V. Thompson Music.

The third is called Elementary Rudiments of Music (Barbara Wharram), published by Frederick Harris Music Co. Limited. It's also recommended by Royal Conservatory of Music.


Thank you! It is easier than I thought!
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your feedback Henrick
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