Violin Forum/Message Board

[Jason Cooke]

I have been buying up tonewood in recent years that had been cut 2-3 years previous to my purchases. My intent has been to further season the wood myself. The TX climate runs the gamut -- from a low temperature around 40 to a high in the low 100s with a lot of variability in the various "seasons" -- quotes in deference to folks in parts of the country that actually HAVE seasons. Summers are pretty humid -- in the 80-90% range.

I'd appreciate any suggested resources and/or suggestions on protecting the wood from pests and from theft while at the same time, making the wood accessible to airflow. My workshop is a finished out portable building in the back yard with no way of exposing the wood to the air short of major structural changes. I had considered adding a "chicken coop" sort of structure on the back of the building that would be semi-open on three sides, have a roof, store the wood at least a couple of feet off the ground.

[MANFIO]

I season my wood indoors, in my workshop, this is the way most makers in Italy do too. In the conditions you've mentioned, 5 years would be good, perhaps less.

Two or 3 years was good enougth for Del Gesù in the humid Cremona.

Eventually some of your wood will be eaten by worm... they have good taste and will choose the best pieces.... You can apply poison over it but afterwards you will work with this wood, touch it, have a close contact with it, so I don't do that. I've heard about Borax powder over the wood.
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[jessupe goldastini]

ah yes wood.....

first there are some things we must understand about wood and region...

in the unted states there are several hydroscopic eqaulibrium saturation averages....some examples

north cal. 6-8%

hawai 10-12%

florida 10-12%

dry arizona 4-6%

where your at i belive is about 6-8%

and so on and so on...the dept of forestry has a overview map...and there are many micro climate variables inbetween....

so where you reside has much to do with what level the wood will eqaulize to...

loose rough wood could be further "cycled"* outside if so desired HOWEVER any wood you plan on using should be acclimated to "indoor normal living temp conditions" at a minimuim of 72 hours prior to working on it. 2 weeks would be more desireable....

outside is outside, inside is inside......the fact about wood that has been cut shaped and the afixed with glues or fasteners is that once done....it will want to stay within the normal parameters that it was constructed in, ie. normal human living conditions.....60-74 degrees, with 50%/75%rh, in general....IF it goes dramatically outside of its normal eqaulibrium parameters for extended periods of time it {the violin} will "blow" up....ie. if at normal condition then exposed to lots of heat/dry, it will shrink....often causing splits or damage by "pulling" on the ribs...if it is exposed to cold/wet it will expand often causing splits or damage by "pushing off" the ribs....ofcourse having your pegs just so is important to allow for the string tension to "pop" if a bad cycle happens.....

in wood we have two types of water....free water and bound water.....kiln or microwave* drying xcelerates the process and allows for wood to be processed into flat and true lumber...season drying allows for "natual" drying by allowing for natural evaporation and eqaulibrium to be achieved...either way....wood that is "ready" has all free water removed and only the bound water that remains in the cellulose ....

there is some debate over the need for " seasoned wood"....as the end result, excluding microwave drying, under a microscope seasoned or properly kiln dryed wood shows virtually no difference....microwaving will explode the interna; radial cells and allow for DRAMATIC increase in fluid absorbtion....

however ask any "real" violin maker {i can proudly say, i am not one of "them" i'm far too, avante garde'} and they would say that seasoned wood is the only way to go based on its "easing into" eqaulibrium....i ofcourse disagree with that....

so regarding cycleing wood....when we store wood outside it has the ability to be exposed to temp and humidity "cycles", what this does is expand and contract the wood several times in any given parameter, thus "stretching and compacting" the wood fibers, this, after several cycles, will "stabilize" the wood structure and make it more dimensionaly stable after being shaped and glued....it also may be attributed to having a more "mellow" tone by "flexing" the wood.....older fine made instuments have "cycled" for hunderds of year {wood will cylce rough or cut} as well as been vibrated by being played, this helps the instument find its center...kiln dryed wood may be cycled as well after its been cut and dryed.....

to season wood out side it should be in an open yet coverd building, stickerd up to allow for air flow...."hard" seasoning may be done by leaving the wood completly exposed to the elements, then brought to your coverd shed, then acclimated inside....

[jessupe goldastini]

also...your shop that you build in should have a rh thermometer{availible at radio shack}....and you should buy a hygdrometer{moisture meter} to check your wood prior to construction....if it is not in you areas eqaulibrium....don't use it until it is

[Jason Cooke]

Lots of helpful information in your responses. I have always assumed that wide fluctuations in air temperature and humidity in the place of storage of cut, but unworked wood was not good for the tonewood. While I air condition my workshop in the hot summers when I am working, the rest of the time, it is closed up and the temperature and humidity can get quite high -- 90/80, for example. Apart from when I run the air conditioner, during the cooler seasons temperature and humidity are quite a bit lower even in the closed shop. But I gather that storing the tonewood in the workshop -- with its variable environment -- can actually help season and stabilize the wood.

I think what I am reading in your responses is that I don't need to be so concerned about those fluctuations until I get to the point where I am dealing with instruments in progress -- the glued rib structure, for example. Or do I also need to be concerned about tops and backs at various stages of being worked warping or twisting in response to the changes in temperature and humidity? I had assumed that once I began working the wood, I would at least have to carry the work in progress back and forth between the workshop and the more stable environment of my house.

I know that experience in the end will be the best teacher on these points, but I do appreciate your insight that will help me perhaps avoid some costly "life lessons".

[MANFIO]

Controlling humidity and temperature is quite important for restoration work, a cello rib frame can twist and deform a lot due to changes in humidity and temperature.

For new making is less important, I think. Imagine Montagnana's workshop in Venice, quite damp and hot in the summer, dry (sometimes damp too) and cold in the winter.
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[jessupe goldastini]

related to already finished instruments.....ie. repairs...yes they would be more prone to undesirable movement based on the fact that plate/ribs are genrally sealed on one side only, thus creating uneven moisture absorbtion/loss and surface penetartion absorbtion ....ie if we had a peice of paper that was sealed on one side and we wet the bottom the paper will curl, if we wet the top, the water will not penatrate into the wood as it is sealed...however when glued up everything works quite nicely, we would not want to seal the entire violin as the bound water contained insid would rot the wood from the inside out...some that may use thined size coats on the interior are ok, as long as the shell is thin, it is transdermal film/skin...too thick however may act like a finish

regarding old time makers....yes , well thankfully the creator of the universe of your choice had blessed us with seasons, that for the most part change slowly.....all instruments can handle temp/humidity change....its just as long as they happen slowly'ish....

regarding regional moisture content, it is important to achieve it, regardless of what the season or region is....it relates to the wood dimensions...you want wood at a balanced size, prior to working on it...more water in the wood, the piece is bigger....less it is smaller...nice to have it in the middle

but lumanfu, i am just a contractor/wood scientist/chemist turned violin maker....i will always defer to you the actual violin maker