Violin Forum/Message Board

[Elkwoman46]

I have a really dumb question...just a little confused. When one looks at first violin lesson books, one sees 1st Position as your first finger, index finger, and basically is addressing the fingers and placement of the first notes to learn and play.
But is there a different reference to advanced playing when one is speaking of first position, second and so forth?
Is it referring to the scales on the fingerboard, like the first upper scale, for example the G string, down to the C# and across would divide the fingerboard and anything above is the first position???? Second position is the next scale down, then the Third position (if only a few notes left to play)??? Is that correct? Or what are those sets of scales called?
I think I am confused per things I read and am not sure what is what. This pertained to those advancing down the fingerboard...
Thanks so much.
I would like to use the right terminology, and thank you again.

[Becky]

Positions can be confusing...it's not a dumb question.

1st position is when your index finger is on the first whole step from the open string (e.g. A on the G string, E on the D string, B on the A string, and F# on the E string). Second position is when your hand shifts down the fingerboard and your index finger is place on the second note on the string you're playing on (e.g. C or C# on the A string...it depends what key you're playing in). In second position all of your fingers play the note the finger above played in 1st position (your first finger plays where your second finger did, your third finger goes where your pinky was). In third position, your index finger goes on the third note of the string you're on (or on the note your 3rd finger would play if you were in 1st position). Each time you shift your hand up to the next note (or when your first finger goes where your second finger was) you move up to the next position. Does that make sense so far?

First position is the one addressed in earlier violin books because it's confusing enough to learn where all your fingers are supposed to go there and you don't need to further complicate things by adding different spots to put your hand/fingers. The position your in refers to where your hand/fingers are placed on the finger board (if your index finger is on E, the fourth note on the A string, you are in 4th position). It does not refer to scales or key signatures. Advanced players still speak in terms of position numbers...although sometimes we drop the word position. For example, in orchestra, the concertmaster may tell the violinists to play a certain passage in 3rd, or "start measure 22 in 1st, shift to 3rd on the C stay there til the end of the measure, then play the rest in 5th."

You asked if anything above a C# on the G string is the cut off point for 1st and other positions...If you're playing that C# with your 3rd finger, it's in 1st position. If it's played with your second finger, you're in 2nd position. If it's played with your 1st finger, you're in 3rd position. If you're in 4th position, your first finger would be on the D, so C is really not a part of 4th position on the G string (although sometimes if you need a C, but the rest of the measure is easier to do in 4th, sometimes you can stay in 4th position and stretch your 1st finger back to hit the C...in which case you're still in 4th...but that's the exception to the general rule). Position is determined not so much by the note, but by which finger is playing that note. Does that make sense?

I hope that cleared things up for you, but if you're still confused, keep asking and I or someone else can try to clarify more.

How long have you been playing for?

[Elkwoman46]

Oh Becky, you helped me so tremendously; thank you ever so much.
I'll read and reread this some more. Thanks so much.