Violin Forum/Message Board

[jethro]

Im trying to put in a picture of my 2-nd violin.
[img]a:\violin2front.jpg[/img]
not sure how to do it.....

Hope to sell violin 2 this comming week and use some of the $ to get
better tools. I want to make joining the plates easier. Looking at Lie-
Nielson planes in woodcraft catalog. There are low angle ones and regular
"bench" ones . I have a junk stanley low angle and it seems to glide
through the hard-soft-hard stripes in the maple easier than a bench style.
Seems like it is easier to get very thin shavings with the low angle.
Also there is the issue of how long the sole should be. I will only be
doing violins and maybe violas for now. Do I need longer than 14 inch?
They make 22 and 24 inch. Would this extra length be in the way while
doing a 14 inch long plate???? They also have 2 inch wide blades and
2+3/8 wide blades. (?)

Also do yall think an electric jointer is worth spending 500-600$ on ?
I'm thinking there is all most no use for one. at least to justify that
ammount of $ I will buy a good one if I need one. Tried cheap delta.
It's a boat anchor ! Jet if anything.

Hope the picture makes it !
Tim

[dwdougherty]

Tim;

14" (i.e., a #5) is plenty long; that's essentially what I use on my violins and 16.5" violas. The nice thing about the L-N bedrock-style planes is that they're very easy to setup for different tasks. I have three blades (and separate chip breakers) that I use: 1) ground absolutely square that I use for shooting board work; 2) very slight camber that I use for non-shooting edge work and smoothing; 3) large camber that I use for hogging (removing lots of wood quickly). It only takes me a minute or so to change the blade and reset the mouth for the work I need done.

As for machine jointers: I think they're from the devil, , but a lot of folks swear by them.

[M_A_T_T]

I had a machine jointer. I hated it. I don't know if it wasn't setup properly or it was the fact it was a crap Delta bench-top model, but it yielded horrible results. It was the reason I switched to handplanes.

I think you will do fine with 14". I use Veritas planes from Lee Valley. The first one I bought was an 18" #6 fore plane, I have always found it a bit too large for violin work. I also have a 22" low-angle jointer that is WAY too big for violin work, but will probably serve me well if/when I do a 'cello. My favorite plane is now a 12" 5-1/4W bench plane. It's just the right size for violin, and is a good weight. The only time I've ever found the low-angle option really useful has been with my low-angle block plane (I also have a standard model), when I need to do end grain, such as a neck's heel/end surface that has the 86 degree angle.
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Making a Violin III - Finally Finished

[jethro]

Jointers aern't from the devil exactly- - i think the devil is running it but letting you THINK that you are making the adjustments......
I have the little bench top delta and I am convinced that the thing is mechanicly not capable of holding its adjustment long enough to cut 2 boards the same way wronge. I grew up in a maching shop and I spent
months adjusting EVERYTHING on it and it is a boat anchor- no, the epa
would arrest me for leaving that thing for fish to nest in .... !

I didn't remember Veritas brand ! I have heard they are all most as good
ad L-N but half the price. Do you think the low angle blade would be
debtrimental to joining ?????

PS I see now why I can't post a pic ! Never mind !

Tim

[M_A_T_T]

[MANFIO]

I have a RECORD no. 7 plane that I use to make violin, viola and cello joints. I use it also to plane fingerboard, as a matter of fact I use it for many many tasks. I like the stability and weight of a big plane, but I may be wrong.
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[dwdougherty]

I don't think you're wrong, Luis; it's very much a matter of preference. I used to use my #7 for jointing my plates, but I find I have much more control with my #5. Now, if I were to build a cello (not likely), I'd most certainly use my #7.

As with most things (and violin making is no different) there is a lot of dogma out there, but what it boils down to is this: You need to employ methods that are comfortable for you.

[jethro]

I visited my woodcraft today. They have one of the fellow working there
is a gittuar maker and is currently teaching a gittuar making class. I would take it if I had time ! They only had a few L-N planes in the glass case (and locked up too ! ) I got a #62 which has a 14 inch sole,
low angle blade and an adjustable mouth. It is a beautifuly made thing !
(but just how I'd make it if I could !)
At least now I will know it is me screwing up - not the plane !
I remember Michael D. mentioned he could take about 20-30 tissue
paper type cuts off of each plate and the resulting fit had the "spring"
just rite--- if the plane was set up just rite. Do I need to do anything
special to get the "spring" to happen to just set it up to cut very thin and in
the center left/right of the work?
I will be starting a back plate tomorrow so I will be experimenting with it.
I may use my cheap but sharp planes to get roughly flat and only use
the L=N for the sensative last passes (?????)
I never regret buying a good tool.
I refret buying a cheap tool over and over and over.............

Tim

[mapleleaf_gal]

i have a lie nielsen standard angle jack plane. the sole measures out to be 13" long. i also have lie nielsen's standard angle and low angle block planes. i cant stress how much i love these planes!! they are totally worth every single cent. i fussed with my stanley blockplane for close to 2 years before purchasing my first lie nielsen. the day i bought it, i wished i had done it sooner.
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[jethro]

Maple-leaf :
I couldn't agree with that more about the L-N plane quality. No more
crap adjustments having 4 or 5 turns of slack and even when you get to
the end of the slack you can't feel where it ends. And theres nothing to hold the blade straight ! (stanley) I couldn't even use the stanleys as they were without reworking the soles- but the adjustments are still crap !

I have been experimenting with the big 14 inch LN for back joint. I clamped the wood back to back and planed. I take very thin cuts across
from either end untill the plane kind of stops cutting. (shavings about
.001 inch thick) at this point my cheap stainless ruller shows the plates
slightly high in the middle. I then turn the plane askew the work about
15 degrees and cut down the center 80 % in the middle. This seems to
relieve the high spot so the ruller touches positively at each end and not
in the cnter and no rocking feeling. The surface looks like polished
marble. Take out of vice and fit joint together in front of light or sun
and look through the joint to see if the spring is a good even taper and
that there are no high spots to hold off the joint when it sucks togethrer.
(hopefully perfectly)
Is there a way to make the L-N cu a slight concave to get spring ?
I don't really feel like altering my new plane (sooner break my own
leg) Or do you turn it at an angle too????? I am fairly new to planes
and their suttle uses and tweaks. Any thoughts out there?
I tried a joint this way by skewing the sole and it gave me what appeared
to be more spring than I intended. I glued it and inspected it and it
may have been OK except for one little 1 inch long area in the middle.-
it was only 10 minuite onl glue so I just poped it loose for another try.

Tim
PS I will make a new post about looking at this joint -

[dwdougherty]

There are undoubtedly other ways, but this is how I prepare my plates: 1) I plane the inside flat on both halves of the plate, taking care to eliminate any wind; this becomes my first reference surface; 2) I take a couple of shallow through-shavings to clean up the joint edge and produce the second reference surface that is square to the first; 3) I then set my plane very shallow so that it takes something between .001" and .002" shavings; 4) I take a few stopped shavings, starting somewhere between .25" and .5" into the edge, and lifting off the plane the same distance from the other end; the plane will stop cutting (producing just dust) after just a few of these shavings; 5) then I will take one or two through shavings. This will usually leave a hollow in the edge that is somewhere between .001" to .0015"; this is the slight "spring" that you're after. I'll do the same thing on the other half of the plate and then I'll bring them together and assess the joint by holding them up to a bright light (usually the Sun if it's out). If I can eliminate light in the middle of the joint with light hand pressure, I'm good to go. I'll fresh, hot, semi-strength glue; hand rub, and then clamp in the middle with a single clamp and very light pressure so as not to deform the plate. Once the clue has cured, I'll scrape the plate to remove any remaining dry glue and then I'll re-plane with a smoothing plane, again taking care to remove any wind.

If it doesn't go well, I'll launch a healthy stream of expletives into the ether, saw the plate apart, and start anew.

[mapleleaf_gal]

[jethro]

DW and Maple : Sounds like I am on the right track - I just need a little more skill ! I have tried using only an 8 inch stanley low angle block
plane for joining. I can get it to work after a long time but I have noticed that often the last 1 inch or 2 at each end is occasionaly not paralell with
the maim surface in the middle-- probably because the area there is so narrow it's hard to feel when the sole is down good. so I will like staying with the big 14 inch and angleing it for center scoop and doing the plates together to give me a broader road for the sole so the ends remain
in the same plane ( this is "wind " I think ? )

Thanks ,Tim