Violin Forum/Message Board

ollieken · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: neck angle

Has anyone noticed that the cut in the block is deeper at the bottom as M Darton explained looks like it is on the pic
Hak Can you mesure it & let us know Nice job getting the neck off without damage All you folks on this forum are the great to share your
knolage when someone needs help I print a lot of this & put it in a binder
in case i need it later Ken

HAK · Junior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 18

Tell me more on what to measure and where and I'll do it. A pic or drawing would help.
_________________
Hank WD5JFR

ollieken · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Neck

Hank Measure how deep the mortis is in the block at the top & the bottom
of the neck block where the neck fit`s into the body .

Sorry laif & francoisis for not thanking you for looking after this
great fourm If not for this fourm it would be hard sleading for some of us newbies Ken

HAK · Junior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 18

It's 5 mm on both sides of the top ...
At the bottom its 6 and 7 mm...
On the left side the 1 mm thick band has a gap in it making the dimension 7 rather than 6..
Here's a few of pics..
Not as good as they should be but I can retake

_________________
Hank WD5JFR

HAK · Junior Member Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 18

I'm ready to glue but I wouldn't mind some good guidance on how to clamp the neck. I'd like some good ideas so I don't screw up or have to redo it. I'm not sure going to use the Knox Gelatine because 24 hours ago I glued up two 2"x6" pieces of lumber using the TiteBond Hide Glue and a lap joint and I can't pull the pieces apart. For this import it seems too much trouble to use real hide.

So how about some tips on clamping?
_________________
Hank WD5JFR

ollieken · Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: neck

Thakk you for the mesurements
Hank someone posted dont use tiebond if you have a problum lining up the neck & it sets you may have a harder time to get it apart than the first time or someone may want to take it off again for one reason or other just my idea for not using tiebond Good luck Ken

Dave Chandler · Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: gluing neck

Hank,

My first repair, I bought what looked like a nice old French violin on ebay, and the clearance at the bridge was WAY too high, so I removed the neck, and unfortunately also damaged the button on the back, but that's another story. I had to remove about 3 mm or more from the heel of the neck and refit the neck to the violin. Great experience.

I presume you've either left the fingerboard on, or you need to put it back onto the neck and let it set overnight.

I use a 4" c-clamp to press the neck (and fingerboard) down against the button on the back of the violin, but you need to prepare some cushioning blocks so you don't damage the fingerboard or the button on the back of the violin in the process. TAke a small pice of soft pine block and make yourself a block to go on the fingerboard that has the same curve on the bottom to fit the fingerboard flush, and flat on top for your clamp. On the button, also a piece of cork or soft pine.

I use a huge piece of rubber, just like innertube rubber, shaped like a big rubber band, about 30mm wide, and wrap it around the body's outline, and holds the heel of the neck snugly against the upper block.

I usually wrap the band first, checking that the neck is snug against the body, and then put my clamp on, do all this first without glue. When you have everything clamped, check your fingerboard's orientation, make sure it lines up properly with the center of the saddle at the botton of the violin, and that your fingerboard projection is proper height at the stop. If not, take it off and make adjustments to the mortise. I make a pencil mark on the center of the fingerboard at the wide end, and visually line it up looking from the bottom of the violin, across the center of the saddle and up the fingerboard to the central ridge on the scroll -- these three points should line up.

You do not want to have to wiggle this around to get it straight, it should lay straight into the mortise with the band and clamp. If not so you may have go back and make adjustments to the mortise several times till it goes in just right. If you have to wiggle it around to line it up or raise it up or down to get the height right, its not ready to glue.

When I'm happy with it, I warm the parts up, get all my clamps and blocks laid out for a quick assembly, get my hot hide glue ready to go, brush some glue into the mortise, and on the end of the neck, slide it into place, and as quickly as possible pull the band around the neck to pull it tight into the mortise, attach my clamps, and if everything lined up correctly in the practice rounds, it should go well with the glue. Double check your alignment and clearance again real quick, then you either pull it apart, or leave it and let it set overnight undisburbed.

Its really pretty straight forward, common sense, just practice the clamping and banding a couple times so you're confident and quick. If you don't have a large piece of rubber to make a band out of -- I would think you can buy a bike innertube at a WalMart or something, cut two or three nice strips and just tie them at the ends to make a big band. Be careful not to overdue the tightness, you don't want to collapse the ribs.

I don't have an opinion on Titebond, although I think I used Titebond for that first neck repair I mentioned. Some advise its OK for permanent attachment of things like the neck, as its something that should not heve to be removed again.

Anyway, Good luck. I don't think you'll do too much damage, so be bold and go for it.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Chet Bishop · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:48 am Post subject:

The kind of Titebond he is referring to is not the yellowish Aliphatic Resin (AR) glue, used in woodworking shops-- it is the "liquid hide glue" which is real hide glue that has been treated so as to stay liquid, rather than gelling as it cools. It has fair tack strength, very good holding strength, and it is just as reversible as hot hide glue-- more so, in fact. In fact, that is the problem with it-- it can and will resorb moisture from a humid environment and return to the liquid state, and simply let go... Nasty way to end a relationship with an instrument-- and a customer, more than likely...

I have not used knox gelatine, personally, but it is supposedly the same stuff as hide glue, just without the gel-strength rating. I would prefer that over the liquid hide glue stuff, just because I think it will stay solid once it dries. Your call...you can make up a teaspoonful of hide glue in the microwave, in a teacup, in a few minutes-- try not to bring it to a boil-- you want it hot, as in, 145 degrees, not much more.

Good luck with it.

ollieken · Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Glue

Chet Thanks for clearing that up for me I used the liquid hide glue on a neck & it was left in a humid room & it let go.
I asked on this forum about tiebond thought that will hold it Sure got a fast reply NOOOO you had one bad job why go for another one
Lesson # 1 Ha Ha Keep up the good advice folks Ken

Mat Roop · Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:

I don't understand why they even sell that liquid hide glue... I tried it on a fingerboard in my early days and left the violin in a case in my shop went to get it a month later and the hide glue was all gooey and the fingerboard was loose....I use absolutely nothing but good hide glue... not a lot of trouble getting it ready.. The old masters used it for a reason!cheers, Mat