Violin Forum/Message Board

UnChartered · Junior Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 6 Location: MA

Hi,
I'm building my 1st violin (for casual use) and I have a base coat & 2 clear coats of varnish on it.
My 1st coat of colored varnish showed that the varnish coat is even, but the colorant distribution is uneven.... Sad

Should I try to remove that coat (down or close to) the clear base coats - and start over with the color layer?
Would this be done by sanding?

Thoughts? Ideas? Comments?
Thanks!

Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:29 pm Post subject:

Part of it depends on how dark it is. If you are going to use many layers of varnish, each layer represents a small proportion, and it all averages out in the end. If you anticipate 10-15 layers of a spirit varnish (which would be the minimum thickness of spirit varnish I'd brush on) then you'll probably not have a problem in the long run.

If it's an oil varnish, sometimes if you catch it quickly enough you can remove it with turpentine. If that doesn't work, you could try sanding, or stripping completely.

Tim McTigue · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject:

Michael, which type is your Mastic varnish - spirit or oil? I'm about to use it on my first violin, with shellac as the ground (the shellac is already on). My tests have indicated that about 4 coats should give a good result, so I'm guessing it'd be most like an oil varnish?
_________________
Tim
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Michael Darnton · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject:

It's an oil varnish. Good luck--a lot of people have had problems getting it to dry.

Tim McTigue · Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject:

Thanks. I've had good luck on the test strips using a U.V. box to dry it, and putting it on really thin.
_________________
Tim
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UnChartered · Junior Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 6 Location: MA

I'm using a Spirit varnish (it dries well within 2-3days).
I thinking a total of about 8 coats (1 ground, 2 clear, 3 color, 2 clear) total.
(not a lot of coats, is this too few?)

If I add more coats, should there be more color coats? or more clear coats on top of the color?
Can there be too many coats?

I suppose the other question is 'how dark do I want the color to be'.

If I don't want it too dark, then I gather I should probably take off the layer... Rolling Eyes

Pic of Front:

Pic of Back:

Comments? Thoughts?

Thanks!

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:

That's a couple of orders of magnitude of streaky beyond what I'm used to seeing! I'd strip it, and dilute my varnish quite a bit before the next try. Ideally, each coat should be barely perceivable as a change in darkness--15 or 20 coats of no change, and suddenly you notice you're finished. Some people use as many as 30 very dilute coats.

UnChartered · Junior Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 6 Location: MA

Thanks - that's very helpful (and what I suspected)

Couple of clarifications tho...
Won't diluting the varnish make in more 'runny'?

Also, for stripping...
sand it down? with 300? 200? grit?
Suggestions?

Michael Darnton · Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject:

Strip it with alcohol and a green Scotch-brite kitchen pad.

Yes, more runny, but the idea is to brush it on as dry and thin as you possibly can, so you won't need to worry about runs.

They always look better after they've been stripped and revarnished, so don't worry. :-)

Joseph Leahy · Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:35 pm Post subject:

UnChartered · Junior Member Joined: 22 May 2009 Posts: 6 Location: MA

None taken, Joe - I was a nice way to say 'start over'. Smile

I appreciate all the feedback!
Now its time to see what it takes to take these layers away....
Thanks!

Joseph Leahy · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 2:39 pm Post subject:

Good luck with the refinish job. Please post after pictures as I'm really interested in how you proceed and the results.
Joe

Chet Bishop · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:39 am Post subject:

UnChartered;

I ran into the same situation, the first time I attempted a full spirit varnish-- unlike you, I did not get such sage advice early in the game, but had several coats on before my mentor saw it and bluntly told me the same as Michael kindly told you.

Alcohol will take it all the way to bare wood, but leave a tiny bit of color behind. The sealer will still be there, so no need to re-seal.
What I did is lay down several very thin coats of a golden-coloered spirit varnish, then began coats of the darker colors. Thinner is better.

Once I got to where the general look was what I wanted, I added more color in the areas I wanted a little darker, using a very small brush, and just touching up one reed at at time, so to speak. It went fairly quickly, and looked a good deal better.

I think you will find the re-varnishing a pretty satisfying experience.

_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com

Joseph Leahy · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject:

Hi Chet, beautiful instrument. Nice job!

Joe

Jack H. · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject:

Hey Uncharted,

You have gotten a lot of good advice here.

On the original varnish it looks like you are really using too much varnish on the brush. this is not house painting. The brush has to have less varnish on it. Use some test pieces to practice technique. Top up and down. Back side to side.
Dry brush, the right amount on the brush will give a nice even finish.
Practice to figure out which is the right amount, then go back to the instrument.
You will be amazed at the difference.

Jack Havivi
Havivi Violins
Israel