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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: "Song" v. work, or piece, etc., Does this bother y |
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Does it bother you when people call a piece of music a "song"? That is, if it's *not* a song -- if it's *not* an aria, or art song, or country song, or pop song, etc. Granted, the pieces in the Suzuki book are "songs" up to but not including the first Minuets. And I can accept that. But why call a symphony or sonata or even an opera a "song?" _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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caeman Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 143
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Depending on the people involved, said correcting of the person could come across as snobbery, or intellectual elitism. For many of us, we know what you are referring to via context what is meant, without need for being anal retentive about specific words.
There are some irish trad folks that get all grammar Nazi when someone mixes up 'song' and 'tune'. |
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caeman Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 143
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Think about this way...when you take your car in to have a problem checked out, you do your best to describe what it is that feels/sounds wrongs. Do you want the mechanic sitting you down for a hour and schooling you on proper terminology? Or do you just want the problem fixed and hope they can figure it out? |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'm guilty, among other things, of posting this everywhere. My sense is that if it really bothers someone, they are in the distinct minority. And they're usually teachers. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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caeman wrote: | Depending on the people involved, said correcting of the person could come across as snobbery, or intellectual elitism. For many of us, we know what you are referring to via context what is meant, without need for being anal retentive about specific words.
There are some irish trad folks that get all grammar Nazi when someone mixes up 'song' and 'tune'. |
Yes but some people -- most frequently people who for whatever reasons have not had the advantage of higher education -- will take nearly anything that sounds even slightly intellectual as being "snobbery, or intellectual elitism." An example of this is a person I was on a date with, many moons ago, who was offended by me saying "film" rather than "movie." Another male told me that what turned him off was that I was (at that time) "always talking about computers."
This is pure know-nothingism.
There is snobbery, and then there is snobbery. John-John Kennedy used to make fun of people who were snobs and wanted to associate with him because of his family connections. That is one thing. It is quite another thing to be offended by the slightest mention of anything intellectual, or the use of any terms of art in one's profession. That is not a legitimate objection to snobbery, it's stupidity. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The one person who was really bothered by this was a fellow on Maestronet, I believe in his '70's. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Amalia Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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I doesn't bother me at all. It can be kind of quaint and charming at times, like Itzak Perlman calling his Strad a "fiddle". |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Amalia wrote: | I doesn't bother me at all. It can be kind of quaint and charming at times, like Itzak Perlman calling his Strad a "fiddle". |
Yes, but when he says that, he's not talking about the American genre "fiddle," but Eastern European fiddle, which is an entirely different matter.
See:
Are the violin and the fiddle the same instrument?
http://beststudentviolins.com/StringCareSpecs.html#3 _________________ Connie's Violin Page
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http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html |
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Amalia Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Well, only God knows what he is really thinking, right?
Personally, I'm not offended. I am currently studying a second language and it's given me new insight into the use of words. They move, they change, they evolve, they don't remain the same forever. Whatever words the early violinists used to describe their shorter works probably corresponded to our modern word "song" anyway.
Meanwhile, I must say that it is my opinion that there is a bit too much snobbery in classical music circles today. Frankly, it's driving newcomers away, and we NEED newcomers or our art will die. |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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I do think there's a distinction between an international recording artist calling a violin a fiddle, and the use of the term in most contexts. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Amalia Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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In Perlman's "culture" there is no "imaginary" diety, only the One true Creator of heaven and earth, and He values humility.
BTW, the Psalms (songs) of David were/are all set to music and were played by stringed instruments (the forerunners of the violin) as well as being sung by voices. |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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>>In Perlman's "culture" there is no "imaginary" diety, only the One true Creator of heaven and earth, and He values humility.
May I be permitted to disagree with you? You're saying Perlman's religious? Not really...there are plenty of atheists in that tradition. I can name them if you like. Einstein, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens - just bunches and bunches. And lots of Jews attend religious services but are complete non-believers and only attend for cultural reasons. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:20 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Amalia Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Depending on the people involved, said correcting of the person could come across as snobbery, or intellectual elitism. For many of us, we know what you are referring to via context what is meant, without need for being anal retentive about specific words.
There are some irish trad folks that get all grammar Nazi when someone mixes up 'song' and 'tune'. |
I totally agree, Caeman. |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:01 am Post subject: Snobbery and reverse snobbery |
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I agree that most people think academic writing is boring, Amalia. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html
Last edited by techfiddle on Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Amalia Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 129
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Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. But nevertheless, besides being a mom, I am a published author and don't feel at all "uncomfortable" with technically correct language. However, I began coming to this forum and have enjoyed this forum precisely because it has not historically, been as snobbish as many of the other music forums I've visited. I enjoy conversing with players of all levels without putting down or being put down. I enjoy sharing in the great adventure of learning to play the violin without pretense and snobbery.
And btw, it's not so much what one says, but how one says it that makes one appear snobbish (and words reveal what is in the heart). I'm sure that everyone would appreciate knowing the "correct" terms for various pieces of music if the information is shared in a helpful, rather than critical, "holier-than-thou" attitude.
Just my opinion. |
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