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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:18 am Post subject: Slidey violin |
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Have you ever listened to a Fritz Kreisler record and marked the sheet music to catch all the slides and grace notes and extra position changes?One favourite is the change of fingers on the same note which is not always done for positional efficiency but rather for musical expression.This is a very violinistic effect.Kreisler was famous for encouraging vibrato but it`s time we all made an effort to learn all the other devices he used to make his playing so expressive.Start off by sliding up to the first note.You will find your playing will sound comically syrupy at first but keep listening to his records and others of his generation and the listeners will suddenly be "amazing diverted by your artistry". |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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There are details of decorative slides and how to choose tasteful ones in the Carl Flesch tome.Is it possible to index that book electronically to make references quicker? |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Try to work out a set of symbols for the "slides" that you hear with Kreisler and Heifetz.There may already be a recognised system so if you know about it please tell.
Maybe using the word slide is dangerous.One of my all time favourite players---Gil Shaham was guilty of a horrendous downward slide in a recent performance .Otherwise a truly wonderful musician.I feel guilty mentioning that. |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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So far no comments.This is a small sign that the modern way is to not worry about such things. Lets hope the pendulum will begin to swing back the other way soon. |
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Highlander Member
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 Posts: 85 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I'm getting slidey notes but its unintentional moving between positions. I know what you mean by this, as a lot of Scottish tunes slide between notes. After I have got the jist of moving about the violin a bit better this is a technique I could learn. _________________ you cant get any worse |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Highlander ,Do the slide and drop.Slide up with second finger and land on the note with the third.Don`t worry about the actual notes for now .That`s a good one to start with.There is a formal name for it but I can`t think what it is.
Also for third position practice,play third finger in first position and then quickly slide up and continue the same note using the first finger.There will be a slight hiccup but it makes a very musical (violinistic) effect.See if you can hear it in a Kreisler recording. Kreisler sometimes did things not written in his music.He liked to put in extra twiddly bits.( as my Mum would say).
Downward slide and drops also work but you have to be more careful.Straight slides down are a No No. (IMHO).
General ideas are useful when you start.Sometimes you only get round to trying them much later on. |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Watch David Oistrakh play Clair de Lune.There are a few gentle slides upwards on one finger.They count. |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:23 am Post subject: |
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You guys are talking about portamento? Modern performance practice on the violin is much less smaltzy than the past century, but Yo-Yo Ma uses tons of portamenti, I was surprised to notice. _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Techfiddle Why did I not remember that word?It never came into my head at all.This is a sure sign of Amnesia setting in.It`s not just making a second cup of tea straight after the first one .
I have seen some comments about Heifetz that call his playing "old-fashioned". Of course there is no absolute standard but that comment amazed me. (Schmaltz --Melted chicken fat).
Do you find a lot of older playing schmaltzy? I notice some players do try,---- and get it wrong.I call that schmaltzy.
It`s naming and shaming time.
Again,I was surprised that you mention Yo Yo Ma.
(BTW If you ever watch Gridiron football I think it was Joe Madden praising one of the players that said;
"He is to Tight Ends what Yo Yo Ma is to Cellos".)
If you see a car from the 50s or 60s you suddenly think how odd it looks .Even a car you always admired. Tastes can change.
Did you like the Yo Yo Ma performance and did you only notice the portamento because you were looking for it?
If you take a piece by Kreisler,don`t you find modern versions are less effective in that respect? The slides are missing but often the delicacy and lightness are also missing.Souflees with sledge hammers. In Schon Rosmarin there is a touch with Kreisler where he seems to picture a Charlie Chaplin walk.Nobody does that today. |
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techfiddle Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2009 Posts: 122
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I'm not expressing a value judgment about portamento whatsoever. Ma uses it effectively and it sounds fine to me, it's just surprising when you analyze it.
I noticed the portamento because of a class I was in, in graduate school at North Texas, taught by an eminent musicologist. It was a subject of our studies.
I think the great players of the past were great because they moved people emotionally, whatever their techniques were. But I have known working string players only a bit older than myself, who disparaged colleagues who were too smaltzy, and it was partly or perhaps entirely to support their own careers and had nothing to do with the truth of matters, whatever that may be. (They were jealous, in other words.) _________________ Connie's Violin Page
Internet resources for string players,
string teachers, parents & students
http://beststudentviolins.com/Home.html |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Jealousy--a large and dangerous subject.In many ways it`s a shame that playing has to be chained to making money,or making a carreer.
As a social accomplishment it has an honourable tradition.No audience required.Just the players. |
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John Cadd Super Member
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 Posts: 828 Location: Hoylake
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Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Joseph Hassid playing Meditation by Massanet gives the least sentimental performance I have ever heard.He played quite a long time ago.He uses portamento but if you compare him on the Schmaltzy scale he wins hands down against any modern performer.
Why do so many modern players make such a fist of this piece when it is ,after all,classed as a medium difficulty composition?
In this piece slowing down too much is also schmaltzy.
Don`t you just love these Yiddish words? |
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