Violin Forum/Message Board

Lemuel · Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject:

Chad,

Are you serious about your position? Michael Darton made a sober remark, so I do not know how to take your response.

jesse g. · Junior Member Joined: 05 Apr 2011 Posts: 1 Location: US

Catgut, I'm not sure if you are still "here", My name is Jesse aka Jesspue Goldastini...I live and work in Marin. I would like to help you if you are interested. I have re-registered here specifically to contact you. I do not wish to engage others here related to the unfolding of this post, nor their opinions about what they feel is important related to employment skills. NO COMMENT.

I will try to pm you as well, you may find me at another violin forum that starts with an M.

Chad48309 · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 110 Location: Michigan

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:28 am Post subject: Apprenticeship

Like Chad, I was out of the loop during the beginnings of this post.

Still....to put in my two cents worth, its has been my observation with the invention of the internet, and especially email, that it is simply too easy to post a few words or sentences without too much consideration and let it fly. One can't just go out to the mailbox and take it back after reflecting on what was written or how it might be perceived.

It's a new era. Perhaps there is a new standard with a younger generation that expects instantaneous communications and responses, where capitalization and punctuation is old fashioned, and "u" is a perfectly good substitute for "you." We, old guys like me, expect too much. In my view, if they haven't the time or interest to present themselves appropriately, what does that say about their attention to detail in their work?

It may be that younger members of this forum are more apt to overlook the informality of Catgut's initial posting, and focus instead on the essence of what he meant to say. Unfortunately, I think the tirades that followed does reveal some character issues.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Chad48309 · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 110 Location: Michigan

Benedict White · Member Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Posts: 113

M_A_T_T · Member Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 43

This thread is ridiculous and one of the reasons I gave up violin making. There is too much snobbery in this craft.

The guy comes on here looking for help and you rip him apart....and some of you wonder why this is a dying art?? Rolling Eyes

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Making a Violin II

Making a Violin III - Finally Finished

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:17 pm Post subject:

The perception that there is "snobbery" in the profession is a weak argument for quitting. I just don't accept the argument.

Perhaps we need to concede that there are two points of view. One side dismisses Catgut's request (I'm included although I wasn't following the thread until a day or two ago) because of the sloppiness of his approach. The other side dismisses the sloppiness and wants to be responsive to Catgut's request.

If you're in the latter group, then go ahead and respond to Catgut, instead of attacking the rest of us.

If you find my position (or worse yet, my writing style) "snobbery" -- that is perception, not reality. I spent about 20 minutes drafting this, as I do all my posts. More often than not I end up scrapping the post altogether because I feel that I'm really not adding anything new. We should all take that kind of time before we commit our words to posterity on the internet.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

David Burgess · Junior Member Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Posts: 6

Years ago, a job applicant forgot to cut the price tag off his suspenders before showing up for an interview. I suppose that could have suggested that his general level of attentiveness was low. Later, he was a little obstinate during the first few months of employment. If I had allowed myself to be put off or sidetracked by these things, we would have missed developing someone who became one of the major players and contributors and teachers in our field.

In the interview, I forgot to check whether he could write well. Actually, I didn’t forget; I just didn’t consider it important. Is it some kind of indicator of overall intelligence? Can’t we all think of skilled writers who have put forth stupid ideas? And aren’t there plenty of good writers with abysmal mechanical intuition?

Give me a bench employee candidate who knows how and why an engine works, and can tear one down and put it back together, over a skilled writer, any day of the week.

If I hadn’t been involved in the training of quite a few high-level professionals, I wouldn’t have considered this counterpoint worth posting.

mikemolnar · Member Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 57

What some people perceive as snobbery is often a reflection of their own inferiority complex.

Dave Chandler · Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject:

David Burgess:

Good insight, thoughtfull post.
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

Mat Roop · Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:27 am Post subject:

I agree with all, including David...and as well, there are exceptions to the norm everywhere, but when all is said & done, it is easier to succeed at first by following the adage that "when in Rome to do as the Romans do".... Cremona maybe?
Cheers, Mat

Lemuel · Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:59 pm Post subject:

Indeed, the issues surrounding character are almost too complex to deal with. I must confess, I feel sorry for anyone that loses out, including Catgut.

Mr. Burgess, thanks for sharing another perspective and welcome to the forum. Obstinacy can be a positive quality if it is backed up or motivated by vision. Albert Einstein, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington Carver come to my mind at the moment. It becomes negative when it is motivated by the purpose to preserve one's image (ego) to the point of compromising on truth.

Chad48309 · Member Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 110 Location: Michigan

Let me put it to you this way. Say an inner-city student walks in one day looking for a job and training. He could have a list of recommendations a mile long, but if the first thing he says to me is "Wallah son, you gon' show me summa dish? I hurr ya, feel ya on dat. Gimme shum datta instruction, son."

Guess what? He's not getting in the door. If I cannot communicate with someone, I cannot work with them. It's as simple as that. I will lose months of training time just by attempting to discern what is being said. Your writing reflects your quality and structure of thought, though I would concede your quality of speech is a much greater asset. However, I will judge based on these rules when communicating entirely by writing, which I and everyone else here is doing right now.

I have no patience for those who could not be bothered to listen to classroom instruction and develop reasonable diction.
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-C.S.