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change weight or balance of bow?

 
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Shirley
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Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: change weight or balance of bow? Reply with quote

Hello - Could someone comment on the possibility of re-distributing or lessening the weight of a completed bow?

I have a pretty good viola bow (Vidoudez by Ouchard) which pulls a lovely sound, but which is heavy, and weighted too much (I am told) at the frog end.

Is it possible for a competent bowmaker to adjust this??

(I would like to sell this bow because I find it difficult to play off the string with it, but potential buyers have the same problem. If it could be adjusted, I would like to keep it.)

Thank you! Shirley
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Shirley... Yes a bow's weight can be lessened and/ or redistributed. ... but then that also depends on the nature and how much of a change is needed.
I am not an expert on bows and I am far from your neck of the woods, so I can't even make a direct recommendation. You could contact http://www.fineviolinbows.com/contact.htm Josh has a great reputation and has wide ranging contacts... he may be able to recommend someone.
Alternately,ask any professional violinist for their recommendations... usually your closest symphony orchestra will have good contacts for you.
Good luck!... Mat
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Shirley
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Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Mat! I really didn't know if something like that was feasible. There are several good bow makers in the area, and one I have done business with once before, who also repairs bows, so I think I will contact him and see what is possible.

I was hoping for a positive reply, and I thank you!

Shirley
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FiddleDoug
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the biggest weight/balance change can be made by changing the grip. For example, if you currently have a wire wrap grip on the bow, changing to a whalebone grip will lighten the bow, and move the balance point towards the tip. A silk wrap would be even lighter.
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Shirley
Senior Member


Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug ~ Thank you! This encourages me even more to get me to the bowmaker of my choice! Great news.

I didn't realize there was such a difference in weight of wraps...that explains a lot: I've got a nice light Hill bow with a silk wrapping, and a well-weighted nice bow with whalebone (real, I think). Some one, seeing this later bow, remarked, "The least they could have done is put a silver wrapping on it." But maybe that wasn't the best choice for weight?

Thanks again! Shirley
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome back to the forum Shirley.

How heavy is your heavy viola bow anyway? In what way do you find it difficult to play?
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Shirley
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Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemeul - Thank you for the welcome back - I haven't been "foruming" much lately...but you see where I go when I need help! Smile

This viola bow, which seemed pretty good at the time I bought it (it previously belonged to the Colorado Symphony first violist), just turned out to be too hard to handle off string...it produces a lovely legatto, however. A "larger" student recently tried it, but even she found it not easy to play.

It weighs in at 70 grams on my scale. I think it wouldn't be all that heavy if it were balanced differently. Other Vidoudez bows do not have this problem, I gather, as several other professional players have and like them.

(Regarding what Doug said, I just realized that this bow has a "whalebone" wrap, so the only lighter would be silk? I sure will ask about that.)

If you have any further comments, Lemuel, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks! Shirley
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Shirley... balance is probably more important than the overall weight. You say you have a good Hill bow... find the balance point of that bow by resting it on anything round, like a broom handle, so that both ends of the bow are horizontal, and compare to the Vidoudez. The usual balance point measurement is from the frog end of the shaft to the balance point, with the frog fully forward. For a viola is in the range of 8.5 to 10.75 in.
What is the weight of your Hill bow? What is its balance point?
The weight of the grip can be changed not only with different materials, but also the amount... Ie. the overall length of the grip can be varied by as much as a half inch which can make a significant difference.
Keep in mind also that how the bow was rehaired will make a difference, ie, if in the playing position, the frog is near the tail end of the mortice in which it slides, then you will have a shorter balance point. on the otherhand if there is little travel of the frog from loose to playing position, then the balance point will be closer to what it is with the frog in the full forward position.
On a violin bow, the frog can move about 10-12 mm, and for instance if the frog travels 6mm to playing position, that will shorten the balancepoint by about 3/16 of an inch depending on the bow, which is significant.
Let us know how you make out... Cheers, Mat
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Shirley
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Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mat - thanks again! I'm going to be measuring everything tomorrow and having a grand time. I never figured the frog movement and placement during tightening bow hair was different between bows. There is every reason it should be! And the more I tighten my bow the further up the stick is the balance point - of course! Since I tend not to tighten my hair very much, that would contribute to the increase of the weight at the frog? It all makes sense!

I wonder why I never figured this out? Sometimes I think I'd rather "fiddle" around with an instrument (and bows) than play the durn thing.

I also am going to phone Erik Paulu in Boulder tomorrow, and see what we might be able to do. Thank you so much for all the fun and helpful information. I'm so glad I came here with my question; now I can seem a bit more knowledgeable when I talk with the bow-maker.

I'll be delighted to pop back on here and let you all know the outcome.

Thank you again. Shirley
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got some info from Mr. John Boskovic who was a bow maker.

The weight of viola bows can vary between 65 grams to 73 grams depending on the size of your viola, with 70 grams for 16" violas.

Balance is more important as Mat indicated. Good balance point on viola bows is between 9.5 to 9.75 inches from the frog end, not including the button. If you do not have much wire lapping on there, changing to whalebone or silk may contribute little. Typical amount used for lapping is about 2 grams. If you have solid silver or nickel button, you can change to lighter divided button (ebony in between). Finally, if the screw that tightens your bow is stainless steel, you can change it to titanium. With these options, you might be able to achieve what you are looking for.
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Shirley
Senior Member


Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 178
Location: West of Denver, Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lemuel - thanks so much! I was not able to contact the bow maker in Boulder this weekend, but I will try again tomorrow. All of this information is so interesting! I have all this in mind now, and will appear more knowledgeable than I would have earlier. If I'm told how smart I am about this subject, I will give credit where due!

Thanks again - so interesting. Shirley
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