Violin Forum/Message Board

[John Cadd]

Oh I see . Slanted would describe the position better for me .Tipped made me think of the ends of the post . I put together a garden swing yesterday and the tips on the grass were plastic feet to give a slanted support triangle .
Digging into more detail is fun and this is today`s puzzle corner .
If you measure the post length --Where do you measure exactly ?
A casual thought might be the middle of the post. But that has to be wrong .
If you shape the post at both ends you need to have a strategy . Or is it tactics ? Breaking the problem down just arrange two strips of wood on a table so they are slanted to give the angle inside a violin . Only two dimensions for this . You want the post to be "straight " up and down. If you have measured the centre position of the post position inside the violin you will need to shave away one edge . But the "longer" edge sits in mid air if you measured the centre . So the post should be measured at the longest edge to begin with .And the shorter edge has to be gradually fitted as the table angle pieces show the fit. When you get that idea you have to think about the fit at right angles to what you worked out .
All that is just to focus on the sequence to avoid a short post .
Mark the bottom end all round to make sure you don`t get it upside down .

[John Cadd]

Some of that measuring stuff above might sound obvious but another obvious thought occurred . What will you be measuring ? Is there already a post in place ? If not ,are the strings in tension ? What will the measurement be with strings relaxed ? Is the ideal length a perfect fit with no string pressure . How could you guess the measurement while squashing the violin by hand --with strings ?
A new violin will need a post fitted , most likely before the strings are in place . Not so simple as you might like. Some soundpost setters are the traditional swan type curved shape. One make has a very thick heavy end to give the post a good clout . They should call it a Violin Hammer.
The gadget I made with a curtain wire is useful to pick up a post but also good for steadying the bottom of the post while fitting . It`s just for manipulation .
The traditional end of an adjuster would be better if the metal was half enclosing the end so you could pull it back as well as push it forwards without scraping the sound hole so much .I`m thinking of the post bottom reached from the bassbar side as well . If luthiers only used one adjuster with a spike I doubt if they were all that fussy with a perfect fit . It seems unlikely .

[Mat Roop]

There is no need to measure a soundpost... the length becomes what it becomes as a result of the process of trimming the ends to precisely fit the inner profile of the plates in the position you want. It is not unusual ( for me anyway) to end up making a couple of posts before you get the perfect result. I think that the issue of moving a soundpost under string tension is only for the very final adjustment of moving the post just a mm or 2 at the max while seeking the best tone.
I use a stab type of setter and can't imagine using anything else. I've tried the scissor type and as Michael said they are useless.

[John Cadd]

Mat have you seen the Gemini advert ? The post is held upright and tied in place . If the support is smooth against the post then it needs to be changed to make the rotation possible . It needs to grip the post . Maybe not such a penetration as the traditional design but the advert (which you need to see ) does not show enough detail .
Also you need to get a post measuring device . Look on ebay . I bet Strad had one .

[Mat Roop]

yes I have... it has a fundamental flaw in that you can't twist the post to feel the fit. ... and a lot of money for no extra benefit.

I fit and set a lot of soundposts and have no issue with the standard stab type.... with practice it becomes a quick and easy process... shaping the ends takes longer.

As for the post measuring device .. I have one and found after while that I did not need it. ... after a dozen posts you get the feel for it.

[John Cadd]

Yes the Gemini needs a few spikes to control the post . I wonder if they will fit spikes . At $70 it still seems cheap .They do show the post angle very well .

[John Cadd]

Mat one final link in the chain . When the post contact is being adjusted , the post is taken out for the final slice to be made. How can you tell if it`s being placed in exactly the same position without some mark or guide ?

[John Cadd]

The idea of tiny boxwood tips on the post ends has another complication . If the boxwood tip is cut straight across it will end up being tilted in use. So cutting the tip near the angle of a back or belly will make it more secure in practice.
I hope there is no objection to examining all the alternatives possible .

[John Cadd]

Just out of curiosity I looked up the Heron Allen soundpost page and he recommends the post should be vertical between the plates and then in the same paragraph suggests the top of the post should lean out towards the soundhole to be square with the top surface . You need to read between the lines in his book . A bit of a contradiction .

[Mat Roop]

[Mat Roop]

[Mat Roop]

[John Cadd]

Mat the word authoritative may be too vague for new readers , so could you give them a few signposts to save them wandering in the wilderness . It took Strad a lifetime of patient research and the internet is never going to replace that .

[Michael Darnton]

Not-authoritative is actually pretty polite. :-) Heron-Allen was an attorney who had many interests. For a brief period one of those was violin making. Everything he knew came from making two violins under the direction of a professional maker. From a modern perspective, much of the history he gives in his book is now recognized as incorrect, and his method for making a violin is the long, hard path and not what most makers actually do.

That said, regarding the post, the usual standard is standing straight in all directions relative to the ribs. SOME people will say that if it's not going to be straight, then leaning outwards is less bad than other things you can do. SOME people believe that angling the post can have positive effect under special circumstances.

In my experience, most post advice is built on a tower of myths, not fact, and my customers tell me that most of their experience with having their post adjusted has been basically random, even in some very famous shops--smack it around until something good happens or either the player or adjuster gets bored and gives up. I have also witnessed this when visiting other shops.

In learning adjusting I found it most useful to start right at the beginning, working with good players and instruments, and try to figure out what various moves do one move at a time with a lot of patient player feedback, and assuming for a start that everything I had heard about it previously was probably wrong. And that assumption turned out to be true in many cases.
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[Mat Roop]