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Alternate woods
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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:01 am    Post subject: Alternate woods Reply with quote

When I was at Lynn Hannings' class in Eureka, she stressed the importance of finding alternative woods for bowmaking, citing Ipé and Bloodwood as possibilities, as well as some others-- Hedgeapple (Osage Orange) was mentioned (perhaps not by her), and perhaps some other woods as well.

Has anyone tried Greenheart? I know the wood is toxic, and problematic, but they used to make fishing poles out of it, prior to the advent of fiberglass, so it would seem to me...

Anyway, in general, what woods has anyone used? and specifically, has anyone tried greenheart? Padauk? Purpleheart? Others?
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Jack H.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Chet,
I am not a bow maker but I have seen bows made from Ipe and they are very comprable to good Brazil wood and pernabucco.

Jack
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 275
Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet, check out Stephen Marvin's web site or maybe give him a buzz, he seems to've tried a lot of different woods and he has some ideas about how to compensate for them. His site is www.historicalbows.com

I'd stay away from Purpleheart and Padouk as too light.
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okawbow
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Joined: 31 Mar 2009
Posts: 63
Location: Southern Illinois

PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: snake wood? Reply with quote

I'm digging this subject back up, because I came across a bow in trade, that is said to be snake wood. Does anyone know what this wood is, and where it originated? It's an octagon to round stick with good workmanship, no markings, and a fancy white frog with silver and abolone fittings. It's a very stiff stick and possibly made slimmer than Pernambuco. There are dark stripes vertically down the length of the bow. These stripes can be slightly felt as well as seen.

As far as other woods...I have made 2 violin bows from osage orange, that was selected for density and straight grain. (I make archery bows, and have a large supply of 20 year old osage orange wood) One of the bows, with slightly less hair than I use in a good pernambuco bow, is, I am told, an excellent "fiddle" bow. "It is loud and fast, and has good bite."
I don't play well, but it is easy for me to get good tone with that bow. I think it is important to orient the grain vertically with osage. As with pernambuco, there is a large variation in the density of osage, so it must be selected carefully. Only a small percentage of the wood is heavy enough.
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Jack H.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snakewood is snakewood. it takes it's name from the figure in the wood, resembling snakeskin ( to a point).
It comes from South America and is used primarily in baroque bows and was used in the period. Recently it is being used in Chinese bows that I see on Ebay.
I have not worked with it, but have heard it is very hard adn difficult to work with.

the grain in pernabucco bows is orented horizontaly or at an angle.

Ipe is nowadays being used to make very good student bows.
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John Cadd
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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Location: Hoylake

PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:35 pm    Post subject: alternate woods Reply with quote

I suppose technically even though Francois Tourte was "lucky" in that the dye industry was operating within reach off his workshop (Brazil is not on a Frenchman`s shopping route) has there been an organised search to absolutely confirm that there is no better wood for bows?
Unlikely ,I know, but the way so much is destroyed to make room for Big Mac burgers ,cattle farms etc.Who knows what is still hanging on over there (down there if you`re American).
Strange that we cannot replicate something so simple as a stick.
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Andres Sender
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Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have in fact been studies done to find alternative woods. The result was that although there are some alternatives which can work, pernambuco is unique in its combination of stiffness vs. weight vs. damping. The latter is where pernambuco is very unusual apparently.

Aside from the interesting work in designing synthetic bows that work differently from pernambuco by taking advantage of the unique character of synthetics, there are also efforts being made towards treating wood that is ‘almost’ as good as pernambuco to make it ‘just as good’. How all this will pan out remains to be seen.
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sept 2009 issue of "The Strad" had a short article on collaborative bow making in the interest of conserving pernambuco trees. Will anyone know if the 30 bowmakers will be using alternate woods? Or is this fundraising for education and cultivation, and pernambuco is what will be used for the collaborative bows?
Just curious... Mat
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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see it mentioned here, but there was (is) an English maker who was quite successful making bamboo bows using the same sectored, glued-up, method as used for fishing rods. Only the last three or four inches of the tip are pernambuco. Someone I used to work for has one, and it's surprisingly effective.
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Janito
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Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 114
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawrence Cocker (I thought it was Clifford Hoing, but I was corrected)

See here:
http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=317766&st=20
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was Lawrence Cocker, of Derby. He made them from 6 strips of bamboo, bonded with epoxy and patented the design. They were very popular with music students in the 1960s and '70s and I remember seeing a lot of them. My violin teacher, Brien Stait, used to recommend them. He also made many Tertis model violas.

But I would suggest that you try Bloodwood. It's very similar to pernambuco in density and flexibility, but does not make the same allergenic dust. The finish can be really beautiful. I know Lynn likes it a lot. I'll try to get some pictures to post if anyone is interested.

Ed
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Shillitoe wrote:
.... I'll try to get some pictures to post if anyone is interested.

Ed

Well I guess eh!! Yes, please post... Thanks, Mat
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Andres Sender
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stephen Marvin briefly (and positively) discusses bloodwood/cacique at his website I linked above. It can apparently even be seen in some original transitional bows.
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mat / Andres. Sorry for the delay. Here are some pictures of bloodwood. As you see, the boards are a lot bigger than you can get with pernambuco. The two bows are still in progress (please don't notice the tool marks etc!) but I think you can see the appearance of the wood. The stick of the first bow is European Beech.








Ed
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FiddleDoug
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, Ed. It will be interesting to see how they play when completed.
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