Violin Forum/Message Board

[Ode to Tragedy]

I imagine the people proficient in violin/music will know what scale they are in by hearing it but as a beginner how do I tell?

I ask because I have my music book and have been looking up the tunes on youtube for reference to then follow the sheet music and then play it by ear myself which helps alot.

What makes it confusing though is they are always saying this is in the scale of G major or D or whatever and I have no idea what that means other than that they are different pitches/scales.

It makes it more confusing that the same tunes can be played on different scales so then it makes it harder to know if what they are playing is applicable to me even if it's the same tune.

So how many different 'scales' are there on the violin and how do I tell if what they are playing is the one on my music sheet (I try and see by what strings they are playing on but it can be hard to tell)?

I also find it confusing how with the notes there are G's and A's and D's on several different strings. How do I make sense of it all?

[Benedict White]

Google scales, it will help.

In western scales there are 7 notes to an octave, of which 5 can be sharp or flat. In C major they are: C, D, E, F, G, A, B. If you are doing a scale, you finish on the note of the scale, making 8, so a one octave scale in C major would be: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.

A two octave scale would in C major would be C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.

On a violin, that is actually a bit harder to do, so generally people start with D Major one octave, then at some point soon get to G major in two octaves.

See here for examples of violin scales:

http://www.folkofthewood.com/page5307.htm

It is a useful place for scales as it has finger positions.

As to why the "same note" turns up in several places on the violin, that is because it can play more than one octave.

[Ode to Tragedy]

Thanks,

So how many different notes/scales does a violin play? From what scale to what. At least then I know the parameters.

[Benedict White]

The lowest note on a violin is the G below middle C on a piano, (or the note just below the second ledger line below the trebble clef stave) and well, the highest note depends on which position you are playing in.

If you are starting out you can get two octaves in G Major, A Major, B flat Major from the first position. After that you start going to second third and fourth positions which could give you three octaves in some.

I hope that helps.

[Ode to Tragedy]

Yes thanks.

What does positions mean as it's another thing that confused me?

Is that just where your fingering hand is positioned while 'doing' a note?

[Benedict White]

It is where your left hand is on the neck. First is when it is up against the scroll, and your index finger then hits the finger board about two fingers widths down from the nut (A on the G string, E on the D, B on the A and F# (sharp) on the E.

Your second finger is normally two away from that, being B on G, F# on D, C# on A and G# on the to E.

Your third finger then hits the finger board right next to your second, giving C, G, D, and A on the four strings.

3rd position (as an example) is when you move your hand so that your fist finger lands where your 3rd would have.

That said, you are a long way off bothering with positions, so ignore them for now as they will be confusing.

[Lemuel]

These are very good question to ask. By all means, it is good to learn the scales. To recognize which key or scale you are playing in will take the much more important skill of "hearing" the scale.

You'll need to develop hearing the Solfege symbols "Do Re Mi Fa So La Ti Do". There is a lot of meaning in the song "Do-Re-Mi" from Rodgers and Hammerstein's score for "The Sound of Music" movie. The objective is to train your hearing. The key is to hear the reference note "Do" and all the other notes in reference to it. Learning and teaching this skill can get quite involved as there are many approaches. To simplify matters, this is what I would do.

1. Start with an open D (D major scale) on your violin and mentally identify this note with the reference symbol "Do". Sing this note aloud. (Singing out aloud is much more important than you think. The "Do" note is always the first note of any major scale...in this case the D scale).

2. Now play the next note E with your first finger in first position on the D string and identify and sing this note as "Re". Then play F#, G, open A, B, C# and D, while singing "Mi", "Fa", "So", "La", "Ti" and "Do" respectively. Notice that the last D you play on the A string with your third finger in first position is also a "Do", which starts the D major scale over again, but one octave higher. Notice also that in the key of D major, there are two sharps for this key and that is why you played F# and C#.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2, but start with open A (A major scale). Play A, B, C#, D, open E, F#, G# and A while singing "Do", "Re", "Mi", "Fa", "So", "La", "Ti" and "Do" respectively. Notice that "Do" references A this time and is the first note for A major scale. Notice also three sharps for A major, which is why you played C#, F# and G#.

Get used to the first three steps before moving on to the next step below.

4. Take any simple song like "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" or "Long, Long Ago" and play them in the key of D. Sing the notes using "Do Re Mi".

So for Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" you would be singing "Do, Do, So, So La, La, So, Fa, Fa, Mi, Mi, Re, Re, Do...and so forth".

Repeat this in the key of A. Notice that the note names change, but the Solfege symbols do not, a very important factor in learning to "hear" the key.

5. Take more difficult songs that start on a note other than "Do" like "Mary Had a Little Lamb". So playing on the key of D, the starting note would be G or "Mi", and on the key of A, the starting note would be C#, also "Mi". Make sure you sing the corresponding symbols of the entire song. For this song, you would sing.

"Mi Re Do Re Mi Mi Mi, Re Re Re, Mi So So"...and so forth"

Taking as many songs as you are playing and repeating the above procedure will train your hearing.

I hope I have not confused you. It is much more easier to teach in person than by words. It would do you well also to learn the scales with a keyboard and pick up a primer on music theory (like Elementary Rudiments of Music, by Barbara Wharram). I have heard countless number of times that many professionals have learned the keyboard as a second instrument to understanding music theory.

A good violin teacher can also help you learn all this.

[Ode to Tragedy]

Sure, so in general 1st position is for the beginner and they gradually progress to the other positions?

I got to 4th fingering on the E string today and was finding that one a more difficult one to pull off since my lil finger is weaker so was harder to get the pressure to get a good tone.

[Lemuel]

I should add that once you get to playing different songs on the D and A and singing them with "Do Re Mi..", you should repeat the exercise with the G string.

You may not see at the moment how this is going to help you hear the key...but it will. One day, something will snap (a realization...one of those ah ha experiences) in your hearing.

[Lemuel]

[Ode to Tragedy]

I think I have pretty good tone recognition already from when I used to DJ since, although you don't have to figure out tones you do have to have a keen ear for beat matching.

Actually I think I got a bit better with tone from doing some music production on my comp.

Then again I don't know if I'm any better than anyone else. I might just be blowing smoke up my own ass .

My reason for bringing it up was just that I was learning 'Ode to Joy' recently and found it easier to 'play it by ear' than by learning from the book; although I've found both useful since as they are different references of the same stuff and one compliments the other what what I've noticed so far.

[Lemuel]

[Ode to Tragedy]

Thanks this is useful. I'm a really analytical person so find background in theory really helps when I'm figuring stuff out.

When people play and they do the little hand quiver with the fingering finger to produce a wavy sound is that a special note or is it an optional flourish they add?

[Lemuel]

You must be talking about vibrations. These are the same notes you play, but there is a rapid rotational movement of fingers and hand on the violin strings that causes it to vibrate.

In your case, I wouldn't be concerned about vibrations until you start learning to shift and glide (glissando) to new positions.

[Benedict White]