Violin Forum/Message Board

bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

Hi all. I've been apprenticing with a violin maker here in NY for about a year. I'm in the middle of my first violin. I've done some tasks for practice with inexpensive wood such as carving the scroll an so on.

I was wondering what kind of tools you guys are using. Pfeil seems like a good buy. But I was looking into carving tools (gouges in particular) and they seem great... but a bit expensive. I am considering buying some.. or many. I perfer to buy things once, and have it last, and perform. Is that asking too much from Swiss or German carving tools? This may seem rhetorical, but are Japanese tools the best?!
Their prices suggest so. I see they aren't mass produced the way some of the western tools are. For example, go to "The Japanese Woodworker" catalog and read up on any particular chisel, gouge or hammer. They will tell you something like "These gouges are made by hand from premium blue steel in the shop of Miamoto Musashi and his son.." Is this all hype or are they the best?

Please let me know some of the stuff you're using. I have a set of Pfeil hand carving tools, and a 5/25 Pfeil gouge, considering my next big purchases. Please help me out. Thanks.

Andres Sender · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:52 am Post subject:

Different people use different things according to their own work methods and sharpening styles. Most pros dislike the Pfeil as being soft and requiring sharpening too often. Some claim Japanese gouges are too hard. I like my hardest knives because they keep their edges forever, even though they are harder to sharpen initially, so I'd like to to try a Japanese gouge sometime.

At the moment the most satisfactory gouges I have are some antiques, a Stubai, and some Aurious.

jessupe goldastini · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject:

the most important element in a hand tool is that the tool "feels" good in your hand and that it allows you the "feel" to get the purchase on the work its intended to do....and then ofcourse as andres pointed out....really the most important is the ability to sharpen the tool well and quickly...for example, i use a "hook" scraper or what may be commonly called a paint scraper....a huge smile may be shaped on the blade and then it may be used in the place of finger planes....it sharpens razor sharp with a file....it does not require a stone and therefore sharpens very quickly for me....and is actually much more precise/aggressive than finger planes.....and way cheaper....i have a set that don't even use really cause the scraper works so well....regarding chisles again the ability to sharpen them should be paramount...for example i don't really like two cherries because the handle is fat and the blade hard to sharpen....but thats just an opinion.....what does your teacher perfer?...try what he has.....go to some furniture shops....violin shops... cabinet shops.....ask if you can look at their stuff....mabye push the balde....its hard to find somewhere to test drive gouges.....what may work for me....might not for you....hell i just arched my tops with a 7 inch polisher grinder with 50 grit sand disks...worked sweet......but then again...i operate outside of the loop.....

bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

Guys.. thanks for the input. Well, my master uses mainly swiss Pfeil gouges. He might have also a couple of Swiss/German antiques laying around. I have yet to try the Japanese. At his bow making factory he does have an incannal Japanese gouge, but again, haven't tried it yet. I am good at honing.. so I'm not worried about a particular steel being to hard to sharpen. Id say it is true that Pfeil might be a bit on the soft side. I've been carving a scroll with "Set B" Pfeil hand carving tools and a few of the gouges had minor fractures on the edge of the blade already. So I think I'm going to purchase a couple Japanese gouges. I'm also not into huge handles myself, so I might stay away from Two Cherries. Thanks.
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mapleleaf_gal · Member Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 73 Location: tucson, az

i have both swiss/german and japanese tools. i prefer my japanese ones due to the edge holding longer. but as another person said, they can be a bit harder to grind. my swiss gouges lose their edge easily. and i hate grinding and sharpening!! ha!

mapleleaf_gal · Member Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 73 Location: tucson, az

i meant to add:

dick in germany sells a lot of great japanese tools, but you pay a higher shipping price....

http://www.dick-gmbh.de/

try to wait and make one big order or do a joint order with someone else. they have tons of great things.
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bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

Yes. Dick is a great supplier. I haven't purchased anything from them yet, but I have looked at the site before.

How do you sharpen your gouges, Mapleleaf? You use a grinder? I do all my sharpening by hand.
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MANFIO · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:44 am Post subject:

Dick sells japanese water stones (KING) with channels for gouges, as well
as cone shaped stones for this same purposes, I have both types and they
work great.
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bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

I can't find a Japanese stone with channels other than water slip stones.
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MANFIO · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject:

Hi! Enter Dick, then tools, then shapening tools, then Japanese cinder block, you will find the Slipstones (1000 and 4000) as well as the conical slipstones there.
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bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

Oh yes, Manfio. I have a 1000 grit cone.
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"I only write the notes as written, it is god that creates the music." J.S. Bach

MANFIO · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject:

I find quite interesting when I see those photos of workshops with quite big gouge and chisel racks... Francesco Bissolotti says we need just 5 gouges and 3 chisels to make a violin, and I think he is right. I have relavely few, but quite good tools. I love Japanese tools.
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KenN · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject:

Different tools give a different feel. I like tools that have a really thin edge. I gives a feel like it's just slicing the wood, like a paring cut. The thin gouges with the ergometric handles made in California come like that right from the box. I'm at my daughters house in Arizona and I can't think of the name brand! They come in a small palm size that is ideal for carving scrolls. I like the way they feel, but they will chip out, as will a Japanese tool if you try to take bigger shavings than you should. I think that is where the softer gouges excel is in the big hogging cuts. I usually do those with a handmade plane.

bulerias1981 · Member Joined: 16 Jun 2007 Posts: 41 Location: Beacon, NY

Actually, I would like to know what brand name gouge is that. I could use more palm style gouges. I have a set of swiss ones, but they aren't complete enough for scroll carving.
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"I only write the notes as written, it is god that creates the music." J.S. Bach

MANFIO · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:10 pm Post subject:

My scroll gauges are WOLF and I use "mushrom" type handles on them.
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