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New additions to my violin making book
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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: New additions to my violin making book Reply with quote

For those who are interested or have been following this project, I've added two new things to my violin making book web site, http://violinmag.com

One is a short presentation of the process for getting a well rounded edge, the other is a dissertation of how to deal with corner shapes on Stradivari mold violins.

The edgework thing is quite large, and will take a while to download.
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: New additions to my violin making book Reply with quote

Michael Darnton wrote:
For those who are interested or have been following this project, I've added two new things to my violin making book web site, http://violinmag.com

One is a short presentation of the process for getting a well rounded edge, the other is a dissertation of how to deal with corner shapes on Stradivari mold violins.

The edgework thing is quite large, and will take a while to download.


Very cool.

Both are things I am working on presently.

After forty some violins, I have come up with the idea of creating a violin that I like the edgework on, as a part of the "work of art" that a violin is supposed to be - (which is where I am usually dissappointed with my own work) mostly having to do with the corners and everything they encompass and reflect... having to do with their construction from an idea - to the mold - to the plate - and onward.

How, exactly, they meet, and how the purfling goes in, joins at the corner, (which is interesting when you take into consideration the fact that at a certain point, the purfling wanders at the corner, and does not follow the rib structure exactly, or the shape of the plate edge, but wanders off into a specific design charistic of its own, which is, basicly I believe, based on the critical artistic designs established by the specific (early) work of the Cremonese.

Anything else may work fine - but it isn't necessarrily the BEST, design wise - in my opinion.

... how the channel joins with grace, and the corners are accomplished - when I look at those things specifically, I notice that this is an area that can be chased for classical exactness - or left with the certain novice characteristics (that have become sort of habitual for me).

Thanks for posting this information adressing these things.

I must say that this stroke I have recently had, has created certain advantages and certain disadvantages for me, personally. I now look at my past life as a series of exercises (sort of), with a certain level of accomplishment - depending on what I was doing, and how much I have understood about the subject at hand.

Dictated partly by employment considerations, and partly by my personal interests and desires. In the past, employment considerations were always critical in importance - and has been the thing that I have always been most critical of.

Now, in life, I am thinking that accomplishment of my personal interests, aside from empolyment interests, is about all I have left to delve deeply into, that is, aside from immediate family interests. (Grandkids and wife & etc.) which is the other, (by far largest), side of me.

Thanks for this specific stuff - though I am finding it tough to get back to the actual construction of violins, I am struggling with the whole idea of getting a classical construction of edgework and corners accomplished to my satisfaction.

In the past, I fairly well just did my best and never mastered some critical aspects of the basics.

This is my next goal, personally, in making.

- perhaps (before I die...) I can eventually master this aspect of making to my satisfaction. (Realize that I am a real a**hole when it comes to my own goals in learning - and how I treat myself when I finally realize that I never did get something properly!) I may well even progress on to something else that will reveal itself, if I "master" this aspect.

Ahh, violins.

What a thing!
I believe that most of us learn more and more about violin construction as our life goes on. For me it is an open-ended learning experience.
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L P Reedy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post, Craig, but these days I have a slightly different take on things. I've never done anything in my life that couldn't be improved upon, so I try not to obsess too much. I don't have to please anybody but myself with my fiddle making, so I do it my way.

I'm always interested in learning new and better ways, but it comes down more and more to something I heard my father say many times: "Live and learn, die and forget it all." Every day I get a little closer to the latter with an appreciation that whatever I leave behind will be totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, perfection is no longer a goal.
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Janito
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New additions to my violin making book Reply with quote

Michael Darnton wrote:
For those who are interested or have been following this project, I've added two new things to my violin making book


Kudos.

I would like to see it as a bound volume one day. Then it will not obsolesce with the technology.
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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kinko's will do that for you. :-)
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

L P Reedy wrote:
Good post, Craig, but these days I have a slightly different take on things. I've never done anything in my life that couldn't be improved upon, so I try not to obsess too much. I don't have to please anybody but myself with my fiddle making, so I do it my way.

I'm always interested in learning new and better ways, but it comes down more and more to something I heard my father say many times: "Live and learn, die and forget it all." Every day I get a little closer to the latter with an appreciation that whatever I leave behind will be totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, perfection is no longer a goal.


Tee hee!

What a great attitude! I understand completely.

I know that EVERYONE will have a different take on just about everything they do in life, and I respect your opinions on violin making and the various matters concerned with this pursuit.

I'll be honest here, you sound very close to exactly what I was doing with regard to my edgework (& corners) in the past up till now...

I don't want this post to come off as a *superior attitude* or *critisism*, which I do not intend - rather as a simple direct communication about what my recent goal in making is.

I think I've simply turned a rather newish corner on what my goals in this particular venture are.

Since I have no real goals yet, otherwise in life, with regard to what the immensely different self I have recently become are (post stroke), I've decided to try my best to reach a new level in the violin arena. Whitch I never used to think was critical for me, as far as my classical interpertation of style goes...

It's like there is a "new goal" now in my mind.
I know that I'm very slow, especially now, having to learn many things over and over, and still forgetting almost everything within a couple of minutes of studying it, but what an immediately attractive goal this is to me.

It's sort of like I have simply decided something compleatly new, with regard to something I've been doing off and on for about twenty years now (violin making).

I am looking at this like it is something I probably should have taken care of long ago, but which, at one point I decided not to, and now have decided that I am going to go ahead and pursue it until I get it accompished to my own visual satisfaction.

L P, thank you for adding your point of view on this matter. I would like to see your work if you can postan example of it here, I would be immensly interested in seeing it. If you do post something - I promise to learn how, and post one or two of my violins here, showing the specific weakness I have in the edge and corners, that I intend to address next...

Craig T
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L P Reedy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Craig,
I must confess that I haven't yet looked at Michael's lastest material, which I'm sure is as good as the rest, but I pretty much know what I'm aiming for on corners and edges. I haven't made a Strad model lately but I lean that way with the corners. I don't normally take or post pictures of my efforts, partly because they never come up to my standards. I know that may sound contradictory, except that I simply don't expect that they ever will. Typically, out of eight corners and purfling miters perhaps one comes out as intended and I just accept the others and move on. I likely do improve some over time (or did until age started catching up) but my standards go up to match. So far it's still fun and I don't expect to ever make money at it. I hope that this is confusing enough that nobody will really know what I'm trying to say, and I'm not even a politician.

If you want I can probably take a couple of corner shots and email them to you. I don't want to go to the trouble of posting them on a third party site and leave myself open to massive criticism.

Lyle
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

L P Reedy wrote:
Hi Craig,
I must confess that I haven't yet looked at Michael's lastest material, which I'm sure is as good as the rest, but I pretty much know what I'm aiming for on corners and edges. I haven't made a Strad model lately but I lean that way with the corners. I don't normally take or post pictures of my efforts, partly because they never come up to my standards. I know that may sound contradictory, except that I simply don't expect that they ever will. Typically, out of eight corners and purfling miters perhaps one comes out as intended and I just accept the others and move on. I likely do improve some over time (or did until age started catching up) but my standards go up to match. So far it's still fun and I don't expect to ever make money at it. I hope that this is confusing enough that nobody will really know what I'm trying to say, and I'm not even a politician.

If you want I can probably take a couple of corner shots and email them to you. I don't want to go to the trouble of posting them on a third party site and leave myself open to massive criticism.

Lyle


Not necessary, Lyle.

Hey! Lyle is my brothers name also - Are you by chance Irish too?

massive criticism is something that usually happens by non-makers with big mouths, thinking that their irritating critism is wanted or needed.

Luckily, the actual makers out there, usually simply help other makers learn the more difficult aspects of making. Some points of which, are only really encountered when you can see them fully.

... People who couldn't make a violin, but who can tell you lots about how bad your own work is. Yes, unfortunately they take over occasionally on the internet, in this type of discussion.

Looking back in my life, I did enjoy a closed site for a while (only makers were allowed) for a few years, but ended up finding interesting things there also, where a small cartell of makers would post, and everyone else was silent becaue they felt bypassed whenever they would post anything that wasn't theoretical, technical, or uber scientific ... (snore!)

People, it ends up, will be people anywhere, no matter where you go! I have to say that your work sounds much like my own - where occasionally I have an isolated corner or two, that I would like to put up as a selling point (tee hee!)
While making rest of the the photos a bit less revealing.

Good luck lyle , and thanks for posting.
ct
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Last edited by ctviolin on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johngia
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
massive criticism is something that usually happens by non-makers with big mouths, thinking that their irritating critism is wanted or needed.

Luckily, the actual makers out there, usually simply help other makers learn the more difficult aspects of making. Some points of which, are only really encountered when you can see them fully.

... People who couldn't make a violin, but who can tell you lots about how bad your own work is. Yes, unfortunately they take over occasionally on the internet, in this type of discussion.

Looking back in my life, I did enjoy a closed site for a while (only makers were allowed) for a few years, but ended up finding interesting things there also, where a small cartell of makers would post, and everyone else was silent becaue they felt bypassed whenever they would post anything that wasn't theoretical, technical, or uber scientific ... (snore!)

People, it ends up, will be people anywhere, no matter where you go!


Craig,

Couldn't have said it better. I've seen that in large corporations. Small companies, Engineering departments, design teams, governments, Churches, etc., etc., etc. --- yep --- people are people.

John
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Mat Roop
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Michael... I look forward to reading them pronto!
Btw ... I was i fear that someday Michaels Blog might someday disappear, so I save all his writings in pdf on my computer.

Cheers... Mat
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johngia wrote:

Craig,

Couldn't have said it better. I've seen that in large corporations. Small companies, Engineering departments, design teams, governments, Churches, etc., etc., etc. --- yep --- people are people.

John



Yes.

Interestingly, I must say that combative or argumentive or even small minded posts have come near to making me give up the internet entirely.

But since I have such a grande boca, I have realized that such behavior is simply the norm in life - no matter where you go - well... (very interesting that you mention "church", now that, for me, is an interesting and very complex thing.)

I have decided to simply present my own points of view, whereever I choose to go, whereever friends or violin makers are, or where ever the subject is one that I enjoy, for whatever value my posts or opinions may have - and let such points of view simply go ahead and have a life their own - or, may be to just stop posting when things start to get, hmm, I guess "stupid" would be a worthwhile description, or perhaps, way off base or topic, and not what the area of interest is supposed to be.

I believe that a great deal of what happens with a particular site, depends on the actions of the moderator(s).

ct
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mat Roop wrote:
Thanks Michael... I look forward to reading them pronto!
Btw ... I was i fear that someday Michaels Blog might someday disappear, so I save all his writings in pdf on my computer.

Cheers... Mat


I agree 100% - I have it all printed on paper...

If Michael never gets around to printing his stuff - perhaps I will.

Ct's Violin Making Guide.

It'd sell, don't you think?
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Mat Roop
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="ctviolinCt's Violin Making Guide.

It'd sell, don't you think?[/quote]

Yeah, but you would have to have a pretty hefty price tag to cover the legal costs Razz
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mat Roop wrote:
[quote="ctviolinCt's Violin Making Guide.

It'd sell, don't you think?


Yeah, but you would have to have a pretty hefty price tag to cover the legal costs Razz[/quote]

Hey, thanks for the tip, man...

I'll just use another name...
(Hmm, perhaps my wifes name?)
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Cliff Green
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael,

I don't know what motivates you to share your hard won knowledge and present such pragmatic advice, but I appreciate it very much. I've been learning from you for nearly 15 years beginning with a course by Bill Moll that you shadowed. Thank you

Cliff
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