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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:21 pm Post subject: Any bow makers here? |
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Just curious,
I must admit to an interest in this pursuit.
Though I do have appropriate raw wood, I have never managed to carve a decent bow on my own.
I would be self-taught if I did manage to carve a decent one - but I must say, I never have managed it.
I also admit to having a question with regard to this; are there any experienced bow makers here willing to get into it?
ct _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Ed Shillitoe Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 110 Location: Syracuse NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi Craig:
I have been making bows on and off for 40 years now. Mostly I make reproductions of baroque and 19th century bows, but I have done a few modern bows. I gave up for many years after I became allergic to pernambuco dust, but got back to it with beech and bloodwood.
You can get experience with bows much faster than with violins. On the other hand you need a metal-turning lathe and a mill, or a convertible machine that does both. Also you need to solder silver and work with pearl. I find it a fascinating combination of techniques and materials!
Good luck!
Ed |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Ed Shillitoe wrote: | Hi Craig:
I have been making bows on and off for 40 years now. Mostly I make reproductions of baroque and 19th century bows, but I have done a few modern bows. I gave up for many years after I became allergic to pernambuco dust, but got back to it with beech and bloodwood.
You can get experience with bows much faster than with violins. On the other hand you need a metal-turning lathe and a mill, or a convertible machine that does both. Also you need to solder silver and work with pearl. I find it a fascinating combination of techniques and materials!
Good luck!
Ed |
So, do you make the frogs also?
I admit to some experience with soldering and melting and forming silver, and a penchant for silver jewlery making, (mostly simple western style jewlery) as a part of my misspent youth...
Fascinating.
Is your stick making hand done, or machine done? Perhaps a combination of the two? _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Ed Shillitoe Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 110 Location: Syracuse NY
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Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I make all the parts except the screw and eyelet. I do the stick by hand except for drilling the screw hole - I use the lathe for that although it can be done by hand. For some early-model bows I have used the lathe/mill to help shape the end where the frog sits. I do the frogs largely on the mill then finish by hand.
I started out by following the Bolander book, supplemented with some help from Mr. Bolander himself. He did not have machine tools but followed the traditional French method. I would say I now use the same methods that the Hill shop used.
I'd be happy to post some pictures if it is possible on this forum. |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ed Shillitoe wrote: | Yes, I make all the parts except the screw and eyelet. I do the stick by hand except for drilling the screw hole - I use the lathe for that although it can be done by hand. For some early-model bows I have used the lathe/mill to help shape the end where the frog sits. I do the frogs largely on the mill then finish by hand.
I started out by following the Bolander book, supplemented with some help from Mr. Bolander himself. He did not have machine tools but followed the traditional French method. I would say I now use the same methods that the Hill shop used.
I'd be happy to post some pictures if it is possible on this forum. |
Thank you Ed.
Perhaps it would help me to read my copy of Bolanders book also? _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Builtbynick Junior Member
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 6
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Ed Shillitoe wrote: |
I started out by following the Bolander book, supplemented with some help from Mr. Bolander himself. He did not have machine tools but followed the traditional French method. I would say I now use the same methods that the Hill shop used.
I'd be happy to post some pictures if it is possible on this forum. |
Excuse my ignorance but, what exactly is "the traditional French method" as opposed to other methods? _________________ Amateur violinist.
Woodworker, wood carver. |
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Ed Shillitoe Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 110 Location: Syracuse NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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The old French method relied a lot on the skill and eye of the maker. They didn't use a lathe, jigs or a vice and did everything by hand. As a result the bows are less uniform and show the style of the maker more than if they had been turned out mechanically. Lynn Hanning teaches bowmaking like this at a summer course in New Hampshire. Its well worth attending. |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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speaking of tools... here is a handy rig for drilling the hole for a bushing and the screw
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=54855&cat=1,41659
It not nearly as good as what Michael Vann sells... but it does work with careful ajustment. The base is solid so a larger hole needs to be drilled in the base plate to allow the bow shaft to run thru.
FYI!
Cheers, Mat |
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SooT Member
Joined: 18 May 2009 Posts: 74 Location: Devon, UK
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Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Lynn also teaches at the Southern California Violin Making Workshop:
http://scvmw.com/workshop.php
Well worth taking her class. |
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tomigv Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2008 Posts: 50 Location: lee/s summit mo
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I would not take a class with lynn, she/s dishonest and ripped me off on a double bass underslide jig many years ago. She also spoon feeds students . Look elsewhere for honest folks , her prices for bowmaking tools are too $$$ you can find better deals elsewhere ,been there done that. I have taken many bowmaking courses, most of the instructors are snooty an uptight. Find a friendly , reliable bowmaker you can learn from. Also most folks in the class never go on to become bowmakers. My 2 cents. _________________ I am very interested in violin and bow making. Have quite a few interesting bows and a large cache of pernambuco. I like to experiment using local midwest hardwoods, |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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tomigv wrote: | Also most folks in the class never go on to become bowmakers. My 2 cents.
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You've got that right.
It's an occupation that requires repetition, so much so, that most people look at it like it is a chore they must go through in order to work in a violin shop, or etc.
On the other hand there's bow rehair freaks like me, and some others here (that will EVEN admit it) that like the challenge that all of the slightly different bows present.
There are many many small tasks involved, that we can disagree on and fight about also.
What more could a person want out of life?
(I'm making my first bow now) _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
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Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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Craig... The December issue of the Strad has a good article on baroque bowmaking by Philip Brown.
Hope that helps... Mat |
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Ed Shillitoe Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 110 Location: Syracuse NY
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: |
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tomigv wrote: | I would not take a class with lynn, she/s dishonest and ripped me off on a double bass underslide jig many years ago. She also spoon feeds students . Look elsewhere for honest folks , her prices for bowmaking tools are too $$$ you can find better deals elsewhere ,been there done that. I have taken many bowmaking courses, most of the instructors are snooty an uptight. Find a friendly , reliable bowmaker you can learn from. Also most folks in the class never go on to become bowmakers. My 2 cents. |
I'm surprised to hear all of that. I've enjoyed learning from Lynn and many people take her classes twice or more. I get my supplies from her. I've tried cheaper things - you can get very cheap bow hair for example if you shop around - but in the end I go back to paying more for the better quality. |
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ctviolin Super Member
Joined: 07 May 2009 Posts: 961 Location: Roswell
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mat Roop wrote: | Craig... The December issue of the Strad has a good article on baroque bowmaking by Philip Brown.
Hope that helps... Mat |
Yes, I saw that. You're right, it is a good article.
People that do it for a living, make it look easy...
I've rushed ahead and, ruined one blank already. Well, if you include the blank I blew ten or so years ago, when I FIRST tried, that's number TWO.
I blew it, when turning the blank from a diminishing square - into an octagon.
I've asked a friend of mine who makes bows for a living, for some guidance (He makes his bows from a method he devised, not from a book or particular source)
And I'm re-reading both of my bow making books... (sheesh! I realize that my self has been compromised recently by, hmmm, medical problems, lets say) but this is obviously a very DIFFERENT job, for people who are not necessarily violin makers.
That's OK though.
The more difficult, the better it will be for getting me back on the right track again. I rather enjoy difficulty in projects.
I promise that I'll post the first one as soon as I finish it.
(That should be a decent comedy break for us all!)
Thanks,
Craig T _________________ Look,
Listen,
Learn. |
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Ed Shillitoe Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 110 Location: Syracuse NY
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Glad to hear you're making progress Craig! Making the octagon is quite tricky. You didn't ask for advice but if you did I would say that its very important to get the stick absolutely square - each side exactly the same width at each point and exactly at right angles to the others - before taking off the corners. Once you start taking off the corners its very hard to make any adjustments. The other thing that I use is a bit of wood with a slot like the underside of a frog which I hold against the stick from time to time. This shows which facet is too wide and makes sure that the corners are at exactly 45 degrees to the main faces. If you take a corner down too low its time to throw away the stick and start again!
I know a maker who uses the milling machine to rough out the handle and uses those facets as a guide for the rest of the stick. It works but its not necessary.
Keep it up!
Ed |
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