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violin sadness

 
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Musiqientist
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: violin sadness Reply with quote

I've been playing for about a year now and have been proven capable of playing pieces such as Vitali's Chaconne, Mozart Sonata's, Lalo's symphony, Bach's Partita 3, and introduction et Tarentella. I play them fairly well and my teachers and me have always been excited and enjoying our lessons.

I'm very happy with all of this but it also comes with deep sadness. I wish I had started earlier. It just doesn't seem fair that most happened to have started earlier than me. I want to go to a great school, like Julliard and do well, but how can I when I have been playing since over 15 years of age. I don't know what to think.

I had thought of trying it a couple times but was discouraged because of all the stereotypes about how it is a difficult instrument. I never felt that way upon picking it up. In fact I think piano is more difficult. Any advice would be helpful.

If someone would message me their e-mail address and would be willing to talk to me that would be very generous. At your comfort of course. I haven't been feeling that great for a while now.
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: violin sadness Reply with quote

Musiqientist wrote:
I've been playing for about a year now and have been proven capable of playing pieces such as Vitali's Chaconne, Mozart Sonata's, Lalo's symphony, Bach's Partita 3, and introduction et Tarentella. I play them fairly well and my teachers and me have always been excited and enjoying our lessons.

I'm very happy with all of this but it also comes with deep sadness. I wish I had started earlier. It just doesn't seem fair that most happened to have started earlier than me. I want to go to a great school, like Julliard and do well, but how can I when I have been playing since over 15 years of age. I don't know what to think.

I had thought of trying it a couple times but was discouraged because of all the stereotypes about how it is a difficult instrument. I never felt that way upon picking it up. In fact I think piano is more difficult. Any advice would be helpful.

If someone would message me their e-mail address and would be willing to talk to me that would be very generous. At your comfort of course. I haven't been feeling that great for a while now.


Deep sadness, huh? been playing for a year? Not fair that most happened to start earlier than you?

Life can be an opportunity to accomplish great things, or, it can be an opportunity to complain that things just aren't fair. I guess it depends on who you talk to.

If you haven't been feeling that great for a while now, really, you should see a doctor.
On the other hand, if you simply aren't happy that things aren't easy or simple in life - maybe you need to face what everyone who wants to accomplish something difficult, needs to face?
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Musiqientist
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I mean I'd like to hear what you have to say on this. I experience this everyday when I play. I'm obsessed with some kind of truth now, it's like everything's disappeared by music, it's so embarrassing and complicated. I'm somewhat afraid to even face the issue directly. Nobody knows about it.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I play them fairly well and my teachers and me have always been excited and enjoying our lessons.


I have sent you an email message quite some time ago, but I've not
received any reply. I've tried to put myself in your shoes to understand
what you are really going through. I maybe taking a risk to share what
I think, because I don't know how you are going to take it. However,
my motive is to offer you advice as you have requested.

Many of the fears we face in life have to do with what others may think
(or in your case criticize) about us. So many of us try very hard to fit
into the status quo or measure up to some standard of the "majority".
Our motivating force is the need to experience acceptance among
our peers or the ones we consider to be the "elite". We do everything we
can to please or earn the respect or approval of others. In short, we are
escaping the possibility of rejection.

This creates enormous inside pressure to be somebody on the outside,
what you may not necessarily truly be on the inside (i.e. what you really
enjoy doing or playing). The unfortunate thing about all this is that many
actually wind up "succeeding" , to "measure up" to what the "majority"
says. (But is this really success?)

You maybe wondering why on earth would this be unfortunate? Because
many of these hard working people don't really experience the "acceptance",
they worked so hard to get. Sure, it may appear on the "outside" that they
are accepted to a certain extent, but only for what they can deliver on the
outside, not for what they truly are on the inside. So many still wind up
unfulfilled, empty and depressed on the inside. Secondly, they have to
continue working so hard to maintain the status quo. The problem with this
is that the status quo uses a "measuring stick" that continually advances.

You mentioned the word "stereotypes". A stereotype essentially means:

The common agreed opinions or judgements of the majority about
a certain thing.


It is interesting to note that well-known violinists have criticized well
known violinists. Nathan Milstein has criticized Heifetz. Each of them all
have their own stereotyped opinions. But who do we listen to? Do you
know there are videos where you can see famous pieces played by
different violinists, all playing in there own unique way?

- Nathan Milstein was known for his articulation.
- Joshua Heifetz was known for the way he drew powerful sound from
the bow.
- Mischa Elman was known for his pureness of tone.

Heck, if you look at the music they play, many times they don't even
follow the recommended bowing and fingering marks on the page!!

Here is the bottom line:

1. Find out what you really love to express or play on your violin.
2. Find a teacher who will support you in developing it (Or you may just
have that inborn talent to express it in a way that is unique to you.)
3. Be satisfied with your playing, and not after everyone else is satisfied.
4. If you seek opinions, do so not from the motive to be accepted by everyone,
but to find out ways you can love and enjoy even more what you are playing.

This applies not only to violin playing but to every other field of endeavor,
whether you go to school (like Jilliard) or not. If everyone is finding
the violin difficult, and you are finding it easy as you say you are,
then that's the truth, not the stereotyped opinions of everyone else.

Finally, you indicated that you were "playing fairly well" and that your teacher(s)
are "excited and enjoying our lessons". It sounds like you're on the right track.
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Musiqientist
Junior Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have sent you an email message quite some time ago, but I've not
received any reply. I've tried to put myself in your shoes to understand
what you are really going through. I maybe taking a risk to share what
I think, because I don't know how you are going to take it. However,
my motive is to offer you advice as you have requested.


I am grateful of any advice that is sincerely offered to me.

Quote:
This creates enormous inside pressure to be somebody on the outside,
what you may not necessarily truly be on the inside (i.e. what you really
enjoy doing or playing). The unfortunate thing about all this is that many
actually wind up "succeeding" , to "measure up" to what the "majority"
says. (But is this really success?)


Should be, or how do you measure. Reaching what the majority says is hard, and it's a person's right to use that as their goal. I see nothing wrong with it. We are going to far with this I think.

Quote:
You maybe wondering why on earth would this be unfortunate? Because
many of these hard working people don't really experience the "acceptance",
they worked so hard to get. Sure, it may appear on the "outside" that they
are accepted to a certain extent, but only for what they can deliver on the
outside, not for what they truly are on the inside. So many still wind up
unfulfilled, empty and depressed on the inside. Secondly, they have to
continue working so hard to maintain the status quo. The problem with this
is that the status quo uses a "measuring stick" that continually advances.


I am sure that the people who play at the level I am looking at are most likely satisfied. And if they are not it's their problem and they are in the wrong. I don't think people who play very very well are dissatisfied, generally they begin to slack actually, so my knowledge.

You mentioned the word "stereotypes". A stereotype essentially means:

The common agreed opinions or judgements of the majority about
a certain thing.

Quote:
It is interesting to note that well-known violinists have criticized well
known violinists. Nathan Milstein has criticized Heifetz. Each of them all
have their own stereotyped opinions. But who do we listen to? Do you
know there are videos where you can see famous pieces played by
different violinists, all playing in there own unique way?

- Nathan Milstein was known for his articulation.
- Joshua Heifetz was known for the way he drew powerful sound from
the bow.
- Mischa Elman was known for his pureness of tone.


There is something about those particular artists that make me dare not to approach them. It makes me feel inferior. I search up all kinds of classical music on videos for hours a day on Youtube aimlessly though. There's something about it that feels unhealthy. I am sure I will be interested in developing a style and stuff like that, but that's for later one. I am worrying about the present and near future.

Heck, if you look at the music they play, many times they don't even
follow the recommended bowing and fingering marks on the page!!

Here is the bottom line:

Quote:
1. Find out what you really love to express or play on your violin.
2. Find a teacher who will support you in developing it (Or you may just
have that inborn talent to express it in a way that is unique to you.)


Where is this coming from? I don't think it's time for this yet in my playing, a bit early perhaps? These elements have not yet become apparent to me. I am trying to find a "dream teacher" for myself though. It is proving to be difficult.

Quote:
3. Be satisfied with your playing, and not after everyone else is satisfied.
4. If you seek opinions, do so not from the motive to be accepted by everyone,
but to find out ways you can love and enjoy even more what you are playing.


I don't really think I've been doing the things you are stating here such as focusing too much on the opinion of others. There is always a standard of some kind where these the opinion's of the majority forms and I need to reach it but this is all for my own personal happiness. I am definitely not playing for others but when it's clear I've done well according the external standards. I also happen to like what pleases the majority.

Quote:
This applies not only to violin playing but to every other field of endeavor,
whether you go to school (like Juilliard) or not. If everyone is finding
the violin difficult, and you are finding it easy as you say you are,
then that's the truth, not the stereotyped opinions of everyone else.


Some people find it easy and some find it hard. Some do happen to think that other instruments are more difficult. Either way my goals will have to be delayed by a lot. I want to be convinced that I haven't really lost anything, I think that's what it is. I'm going to take sometime think about that as well as this post you made.

Quote:
Finally, you indicated that you were "playing fairly well" and that your teacher(s)
are "excited and enjoying our lessons". It sounds like you're on the right track.


I tend to see this as a sign that I am doing relatively well. But it's not enough. If I was not doing as well as now I would quit.
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ctviolin
Super Member


Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musiqientist wrote:
Yeah, I mean I'd like to hear what you have to say on this. I experience this everyday when I play. I'm obsessed with some kind of truth now, it's like everything's disappeared by music, it's so embarrassing and complicated. I'm somewhat afraid to even face the issue directly. Nobody knows about it.


My opinion?

A year makes you a beginner.

A year in just about any thing (anything involved that is) or any decent field, makes you a beginner.

In music, I believe that learning to play an instrument is one step. In essence a (well, THE) beginning step.
Playing what you've learned well, is a whole 'nother step. In fact it's a big (as in many years long) step.
Learning to play your own music, can be a whole other step - which can occupy a lifetime in and of itself.
Playing existing music to the degree an expert can play, can take a lifetime also. And perhaps even be a (or the) goal - if that's what excites you.

I've been making violins since 1976, (which is when I had kidney failure, which is simply a part of my life) - but which stopped me from being in my actual chosen field of graphic arts, oh well.

So the story goes. You do what you like, and what you can, and that's what you do. You sound very young. You cannot start out being at the top in anything, in fact, as much as you want to - you may not ever make it to the "top" or be the best in anything you choose.
Ever.
Oh well, maybe you have a great talent, and maybe you don't - if you've only been playing for a year, what do you expect to accomplish in music?

Learning to draw is much like this.
Painting - much alike also


Becoming a great or greatly accomplished anything, in my opinion, takes an entire lifetime of dedication.
Starting out is starting out, nothing more. You cannot start out at the end.
The beginning is where you start.

Do your best. That's all anyone can ever do.
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Listen,
Learn.


Last edited by ctviolin on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctviolin wrote:

Becoming a great or greatly accomplished anything, in my opinion, takes an entire lifetime of dedication.
Starting out is starting out, nothing more. You cannot start out at the end.

Do your best. That's all anyone can ever do.


You of all people should find this amusing...

At fifty-seven, months after my first stroke, I'm very happily starting my first violin bow. (making it, that is)

God, I love that anyone can do anything they choose, whenever they want. I couldn't be more satisfied with life.

Ha!
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Musiqientist
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My opinion?


I'll take this but I initially meant in response to what you said earlier. This is what you meant by questioning my deep sadness and feeling unfair but what did you mean by me needing to face what everyone who wants to accomplish great things need to face?

Quote:
A year makes you a beginner.

A year in just about any thing (anything involved that is) or any decent field, makes you a beginner.


Where is this coming from?

Quote:
Playing existing music to the degree an expert can play, can take a lifetime also. And perhaps even be a (or the) goal - if that's what excites you.


What do you mean a lifetime. Surely it took the expert most of his life than generally speaking?

Quote:
So the story goes. You do what you like, and what you can, and that's what you do. You sound very young. You cannot start out being at the top in anything, in fact, as much as you want to - you may not ever make it to the "top" or be the best in anything you choose.
Ever.


I know but I'm sure I could have been good. Had this not happened.

Quote:
Oh well, maybe you have a great talent, and maybe you don't - if you've only been playing for a year, what do you expect to accomplish in music?


I don't know, I'll keep going but what are you suggesting.

Becoming a great or greatly accomplished anything, in my opinion, takes an entire lifetime of dedication.

Quote:
Starting out is starting out, nothing more. You cannot start out at the end.
The beginning is where you start.


I'm afraid I didn't start at the beginning enough.

Quote:
Do your best. That's all anyone can ever do.


I want to feel safe when doing my best. Otherwise it's hard.
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Musiqientist
Junior Member


Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctviolin wrote:
ctviolin wrote:

Becoming a great or greatly accomplished anything, in my opinion, takes an entire lifetime of dedication.
Starting out is starting out, nothing more. You cannot start out at the end.

Do your best. That's all anyone can ever do.


You of all people should find this amusing...

At fifty-seven, months after my first stroke, I'm very happily starting my first violin bow. (making it, that is)

God, I love that anyone can do anything they choose, whenever they want. I couldn't be more satisfied with life.

Ha!


I'm guess I'm just a more greedy person then. I don't know.
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Lemuel
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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 509
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musiqientist wrote:
I'm guess I'm just a more greedy person then. I don't know.


I don't see you in this way.

You mentioned delaying your goals by a lot. Your goals are obviously very
high to reach, and you are wondering if starting so late you can still reach
it. You are questioning all those lost years that could have been used to
reach it. Correct? So you are facing a choice to go for it anyway, even
though you are starting out late, or not to proceed thinking that you won't
make it.

Looking at high goals is like looking at a high mountain to climb. It can only
overwhelm, not inspire. I know you just want to be realistic in your decision.
The truth is that nobody really knows whether you'll make it or not.

However, if you really love and enjoy doing something, the end result (goal)
many times takes care of itself. It's also a lot less stress. You might
want to break your high goal into many other smaller subgoals. Then
you can enjoy meeting those, instead of trying to meet one big one.

I hope all goes well with you, and thanks for sharing.
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Musiqientist wrote:

Quote:
Starting out is starting out, nothing more. You cannot start out at the end.
The beginning is where you start.


I'm afraid I didn't start at the beginning enough.

Quote:
Do your best. That's all anyone can ever do.


I want to feel safe when doing my best. Otherwise it's hard.




My opinion:
When you write something or ask something on the internet - what you get back is another persons point of view. Right? So, what I'm giving you is my point of view dictated by my own experiences in life.

You have the right to listen or ignore me - your choice.

Life is most often hard anyway.
You start out where you start.
You end up where you end up.
A great deal of this is up to you. And a great deal of this is chance.
You want to play the violin? Then play it.

Feeling safe when doing your best at anything is no guarantee of anything.
Doing your best, is an interesting concept. I've done my best in lots of things and become competent enough at some things to earn a living doing them.

Who knows, getting married might be your major goal one day, or having kids, or taking care of a sick parent, or perhaps you'll loose (whatever) in an accident, or maybe you'll end up living in a hospital...

ANYTHING might happen to take away or change your desires about what's necessary in life for you to accomplish...

Or perhaps, if you take the violin seriously - who knows what you will accomplish?

There are no guarantees in life. You accomplish what you accomplish.

Like I say; my opinion only.
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion?
Do exactly what you want to do.
Start when you want to start.
Change when and if you want to change.
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