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antonio
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Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Croatia
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 Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm Post subject: Violin wood specifications |
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By wood specifications I mean:
Specific gravity
Radiation Ratio
Grain Spacing
Quarter Cut Angle
What is the best specific gravity (density) of the spruce and maple on violins, and best grain spacing?
Do you usually check these specifications when buying the wood...
Couple of more questions:
Does it matter if the tree is cut during full moon? When should the tree be cut regarding the moon phases? |
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Violin wood specifications |
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| antonio wrote: | By wood specifications I mean:
Specific gravity
Radiation Ratio
Grain Spacing
Quarter Cut Angle
What is the best specific gravity (density) of the spruce and maple on violins, and best grain spacing?
Do you usually check these specifications when buying the wood...
Couple of more questions:
Does it matter if the tree is cut during full moon? When should the tree be cut regarding the moon phases? |
Ok, I'll bite.
For me the first thing I check with regard to tone wood is;
1. is it quartered - or very close, and does it have the correct split?
2. is it solid and an adequate size to half and join?
3. The "correct species" ?
4. do I like it? (does it feel well, look well, does it "knock" well etc. ?
I don't care at all about Specific Gravity, or Radiation ratio. Things like that measure aspects of wood that I don't care about (as I don't care about when the wood was cut, or what phase of the moon - you were joking about that, right?)
With the grain spacing and species; I like to control what I use, but the grain spacing I'll accept on making wood, has a very wide range if the wood itself matches what I'm looking for in other aspects.
And the "quarter cut" is something I specify, when ordering any wood. It is just that I want to use quarter cut anything.
I also pay attention to the SPLIT in the wood. Since you don't mention such an important aspect, I am going to suspect that you haven't really used that much violin making wood. Split (or grain runout) is critical for me in choosing wood.
I will try just about anything for the fun of it, but still don't use anything if the quartering and runout aren't there where I want them. And the looks generally are important to me. I like a particular "look". It has to meet what I expect for what I'm going to build, or else I'll simply go on ahead and look at the next piece.
Just personal requirements of mine in order:
1. Species
2. Quarter and split and billet size... (as in an adequate size billet?)
3. cracks or questionable solidity?
4. general looks
Very often, I like the "carvability" of the wood I have chosen or bought, but, very occasionally, I don't... and the piece may sit for a while ( or many years) waiting.
There's wood I just don't use for whatever reason, I just don't like something about it and it sits waiting.
But if the other qualities have been carefully chosen, and I examine the billet carefully before buying, that rarely happens.
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jacobyfineviolins
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Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Omaha, NE
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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If you're seeking low density wood, .35 for spruce, and .55 for maple are good ballpark numbers.
I have never heard of anyone insisting on full-moon cut wood, but cutting wood during the winter, if it is not all ready dead-standing, is what I've been told is best, because the tree has pulled it's sap reserves into the root system, and the wood will dry faster.
I think CT's instincts are right. Don't worry about the finer theoretical properties as much as look, and how it is sawn. That being said, I will use half-slab and root stock maple, and adjust my making if I like the piece of wood. Getting spruce that is exactly on the quarter is very important, for your carving sanity, and perhaps for sound, though.
Your radiation ratio- are you talking about the speed of sound in the billet? There are a lot of jigs you can make to measure this.
If you get wood you like, learn to make your instrument to realize IT'S potential. Therein lies the mark of a maker.
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I could have carved a scroll by now.
http://jacobyfineviolins.squarespace.com/ |
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 961
Location: Roswell
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jacobyfineviolins wrote: |
If you get wood you like, learn to make your instrument to realize IT'S potential. Therein lies the mark of a maker.
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Couldn't have said it better.
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Jim Bress
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jacobyfineviolins wrote: | If you're seeking low density wood, .35 for spruce, and .55 for maple are good ballpark numbers.
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Are there any guidelines that suggest how to pair belly and back wood densities? For instance, if I had a large stock of "good" spruce and maple, of low to high density (e.g. .32 to .40 for spruce, and .52 to .65 maple) how would I match them up if "all else being equal" (even though it won't). In my case this is a purely academic because all my wood is on my bench.
Cheers,
Jim |
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jacobyfineviolins
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Joined: 04 Mar 2013
Posts: 55
Location: Omaha, NE
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say one matching is better than another, really. It depends on the skill of the maker.
I build my tops and scroll after my rib structure is done, and when I have the plate to a flexibility I like, I note how dense the spruce is, and what it weighs, and I might switch what back I planned to use, although more likely, I adjust how thinly I work the back (as my ribs already match the one I have picked out).
If a customer desires bright, colorful sound, I might use denser, heavier wood (.58-.65 for the maple). Working low density wood thinner will create a darker sound, IME.
I know these are iffy answers, but I'm trying to resolve them myself! Sometimes the connections I make between such details and sound are no more than feelings, which I lamely scrawl into my notebooks, hoping clarity will strike me with later perusal.
More and more, Michael's stand on arching being more important than most other things has come to make natural sense to me, and I believe that results in my own work back this up. Hope I made some sense(?).
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I could have carved a scroll by now.
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violinarius
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Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 171
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ctviolin wrote: | | jacobyfineviolins wrote: |
If you get wood you like, learn to make your instrument to realize IT'S potential. Therein lies the mark of a maker.
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Couldn't have said it better. |
I'll second that!
Since we see all kinds of wood being used by Stradivari, I would guess that he did the very same thing himself.
Last edited by violinarius on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jim Bress
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Joined: 12 Mar 2013
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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jacobyfineviolins,
Yes, that does make sense. Thanks for sharing.
Jim |
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