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Compleate bow rehairing. Think so?
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ctviolin
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Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Compleate bow rehairing. Think so? Reply with quote

I've considered this for a while. Since I know this end of things fairly well.

I think I'll start a thread here (this thread) about bow re hairing. It's something I've done professionally for about twenty years now.

I don't make bows (yet that is) and I don't usually re camber them professionally. I have re cambered in the past, just because I've run into so many student bows that that's what was absolutely required, but it's not really part of what I offer as part of a re-hair.

I am just now really learning those aspects of the bow (making, cambering and re cambering). But re hairing, re gripping and fixing broken tips, that's a different story.

I realize that there are many different methods, and many different aspects of this procedure - so, I welcome any comments or discussion along the way - any postings other rehairers care to post - very welcome.

Since most of you already know me (accurately I might add) as a big mouthed know it all. I propose to be one here also, so be forewarned. A BMKIA, ach! - what a thing to have to deal with.

Still, I do, promise, however, not to break any rules including the ones here about being polite and accommodating...

It'll be a real challenge for me, so any help will be appreciated.

I have noticed that the bow section is fairly asleep most of the time, so I would appreciate any of you that want to learn a bit about something new, or who might have any friends or acquaintances who are interested in this aspect of the craft - tell them to tune in - perhaps we can make a big party of it.

Even if its a small party. That's ok too.

I don't care.

I just thought I'd forewarn all of the posters and readers here ahead of time, what to expect. Starting a bit later this week, Ill be taking the first set of photos, on a rehair that I'm just starting in on, and thought that it would be a good thing to post this one for anyone who chooses to join in.

Perhaps we can make an interesting thing out of this - it is one of my favorite things to do - its fast (in general 1 to 2 hrs) and different every time - the more I do - the more I enjoy it as a process.

ct
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whatwasithinking
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look forward to your photos and narrative!
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Mat Roop
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember the first time I was asked to rehair a bow... 1990 I think it was...I looked at the problem, looked pretty simple to me, bought a hank of hair, and proceeded. I did not get very far. Fortunately, by now I knew Frank Heinl at Geo. Heinl & Co. and they patiently answered my question with a grin on their faces...did not understand at the time why.
I redid that bow 3 times before I could get it to the point of not embarassing myself to show it to my sons violin teacher.
The problem is that you can't really tell if you have a good job until its all done and then, if it does not work out, well... just cut the hair and start over again.
At that point I decided that my lutherie hobby would not include bow work...period!
I am a persistent and frugal character by nature and my own needs for bow rehair kept me contemplating and asking questions about rehair (btw.. CT's notes were really helpful), and so I tried & tried eventually developing a system that worked for me.
My methods are not exactly traditional, but they work and work very well... each and every time. My favorite response from one of my clients a classical teacher is.. " Wow... with your rehair my bow plays by itself!).. think he exaggerated?
Btw it took probably 50 rehairs to get to a reasonable level of consistent decent quality.
Anyway... I usually am not a verbal rambler ( this time must be the CT influence!) so I look forward to hearing and sharing thoughts and ideas.

First question... I heard somewhere that shellac is used by some to seal the end of the knot... is this common? have you tried it? problems with it?

Second question ....What do you do to identify your workmanship in a rehair?
Cheers... Mat
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whatwasithinking
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess everyone has slightly different techniques. I very much enjoyed watching Craig's videos, although my local coach has a few different procedures. I can see that eventually I'll gravitate to what works best for me. Still on the leading edge of the learning curve...

I was interested to discover that the shops around here have mostly agreed to use unique thread colors, so they can identify their own work.
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Mat Roop
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks wwit... thats what I do... a special color of thread. When I used wire, I used a defined number of turns different than what was instructed in the the Wake book.
For all... especially for CT... here is a nice link with some nice photos on bowmaking... in case you have not seen it.

http://robertmorrowbowmaker.com/index.html

Cheers, Mat
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mat Roop wrote:
Thanks wwit... thats what I do... a special color of thread. When I used wire, I used a defined number of turns different than what was instructed in the the Wake book.
For all... especially for CT... here is a nice link with some nice photos on bowmaking... in case you have not seen it.

http://robertmorrowbowmaker.com/index.html

Cheers, Mat


Thanks Mat,

That was a great read.
It strikes me more and more, how extremely different bow making is than violin making... how VERY LITTLE they have in common as a venture for a maker.

A very separate and demanding skill and talent.

I think I'll be happy if I ever get one made, no matter how big of a mess it is (I could still play it, at least!) and the frog - well, I have one ready made - from the dealer...

I must admit, the violin bug itself is now coming back to me again, after this almost year long break - I must admit that I carved a scroll this last week and was completely absorbed by it - just like in the old (pre-stroke) violin making days!

Thanks again for the link,
ct
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and by the way all, I still am ready to go on a bow rehair thread (this thread) but now I cannot get flickr to accept my 'log on' info, or get any new photos loaded up there, so I can thereafter post them here...

Interesting...

It shouldn't take that long to sort out what the problem is.

sorry for the delay,
ct
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Franciscus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctviolin wrote:

It shouldn't take that long to sort out what the problem is.
ct

Dear Craig, seems that you forgot this thread you started a couple years ago, that I regret a lot. These days, I decided, after some 30 - more or less successful - rehairs, done without any jig(s), that I have to make some kind of fixture (Strobel's wording), because my wife and daughters are not willing to lend me the hands I miss every time I would like to. Looking for something that I can make with my tools, I found this thread and I kindly ask you that you continue what you started, hoping that you are well and that the problems with the posting of the pictures is solved. Regards, Franc
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Franciscus wrote:
ctviolin wrote:

It shouldn't take that long to sort out what the problem is.
ct

Dear Craig, seems that you forgot this thread you started a couple years ago, that I regret a lot. These days, I decided, after some 30 - more or less successful - rehairs, done without any jig(s), that I have to make some kind of fixture (Strobel's wording), because my wife and daughters are not willing to lend me the hands I miss every time I would like to. Looking for something that I can make with my tools, I found this thread and I kindly ask you that you continue what you started, hoping that you are well and that the problems with the posting of the pictures is solved. Regards, Franc


Yeah, ok Franc...

Sorry about the interruption, but I have completely lost my "old self"... I have discovered, as a result of this stupid stroke, now going on three years since I have had it, and I have decided to simply give up on the violins and I have gotten myself into making bows and frogs...
Not that this is an excuse for forgetting what I was going to do here - it isn't. But, if there is a place here, for such a thread as this, I'd be happy to resume it once more. With the foreknowledge that there will be people online, who don't necessarily agree with exactly what I do, and/or, how I do it.
All I can show - in however great detail - is what I have done and was taught to do. And I was taught by somebody who was the rehair man for a very large violin shop that still exists today.
So, alternate methods are welcome.
This'll be interesting... who's in?

Again, my apologies for letting this subject and thread go.
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Chet Bishop
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just keep getting well, Craig. Whatever you contribute is great.

Chet
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Bishop wrote:
Just keep getting well, Craig. Whatever you contribute is great.

Chet


Thanks Chet, I'm glad to see that you're still here.
I'm about as well as I'm ever going to get. Thirty years now on dialysis... Three years after the stroke. And I don't want to mention all of the other things I've had happen, that have required medical intervention, but I am as back as I'll ever be - and probably more so than I'll be shortly (guffaw!) so, rehair?

Yes, lets get the subject 'out in the open' here. No reason not to debate a worthwhile subject.
There's no reason not to get any and every question answered here either.
It's been a while even since I've done much rehairing, so, I'll get a fresh hank, and an old bow out, and start photographing how I do it.

And, by the way, I don't happen to use a 'rehairing jig', either... I use a bench vise, and a holder for the frog - The frog holder is a simple piece of wood that I'll show here, made with an old part from a bow, with the frog slot showing, set down into a hollow, to hold the frog in place while I work on it.
A small section of 2" X 4" will work fine.
The hair, I have from a two pound bundle - which is how I usually bought hair when I was rehairing a lot. I only mention this, because I hate having to use hair that has been packaged in a loop for some years, and which doesn't like to lay straight immediately out of the package...

Also, just so's everyone knows, I rehair from the tip to the frog - not the other way around. It can be done either way, and the way you learned is probably going to be the way that you think works best. But I can assure you, that either way works equally well when done correctly.
I will, however be anxious to hear from the crowd that does it the opposite way. Please chime in with your opinions.
They will all be welcome.
And, everyone is welcome to try whatever they think will work best for themselves.

Questions?

So, if I were buying small amounts of hair, I would probably set it out to straighten a bit, before I used it to rehair a bow.
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Franciscus
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctviolin wrote:
All I can show - in however great detail - is what I have done and was taught to do. And I was taught by somebody who was the rehair man for a very large violin shop that still exists today.
So, alternate methods are welcome.
This'll be interesting... who's in?

I am in for sure.
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whatwasithinking
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to it, Craig. I know I'll benefit.

Bob
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ollieken
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Rehair ? Reply with quote

craig Glad to see you back here I have your re-hair video & instructions
I got from you a few years ago I only do my own & a lot of hash words goes into it before I rosin it up !! what I find hard is to comb the hair out .

Dose a plastic comb charge the hair & make hard to lay straight because
when I get all it nice & straight & go to tie the knot it wants to twist up.

No snickering Mat Roop I am not in the Moon Shine when I try to re-hair
Ken
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rehair ? Reply with quote

ollieken wrote:
No snickering Mat Roop I am not in the Moon Shine when I try to re-hair
Ken



Ahhh, there's your problem... Not in the moonshine? I see some problems here...

Just kidding ollieken, The end is the most demanding part of the rehair - no matter how you rehair; frog to tip, or tip to frog...

We'll get into it further as I start and we continue. I have to get my camera charged and start this rehair on a bow that I have that is already haired, as all of my recent rehairs (which now are few enough) have gone out the door.
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