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Bow Making Resources
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, I was going to suggest that scraper too, but that may be more expensive than people would like to spend. I am a big fan of Lee Valley tools. In the words of Vic Tesolin, they saved my bacon on many occasions.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=62885&cat=1,41182,68491

The other problem I see with that is the sharpening. Can you sharpen it without the use of an adapter of sorts? Kinda like:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=44484&cat=1,43072,43078

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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SooT
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharpened by using a hand grinder then finish off on diamond stone (?).
Perhaps this is one time that small female hands are an advantage with the small blades Razz

Kiddo just holds the blades in her fingers, no other apparatus used.
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Ed Shillitoe
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Syracuse NY

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the plane I use too. I modified mine by taking out the grub screws (one to advance the blade and one to hold it secure) and replaced them with very long thumb screws. Without that you have to use an Allen wrench to make any adjustments. To sharpen the blade I do have a simple jig to help hold it - it's just a stick with a slot in the end - and it hooks over the bar on a Work Sharp to get the angle right.

I don't know what those planes cost because I can't see it on Lynn's site. But I do think they are worth having. Now that I've seen that Veritas plane I want one of them too!

I get most supplies from Lynn - I get casein faces from Howard Core because Lynn's don't have the fiber liner. I get tools from McMaster Carr, silver from Rio Grande, ebony from Metropolitan Music, thin super glue from Stewart MacDonald.

Sorry about the slow progress on my bow! Other things are getting in the way, but I'll be back at it soon! I'm learning a lot from all the postings we are getting here now!
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SooT
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

these particular planes are not yet on Lynn's website, best thing to do is just call her if you are interested. I think the planes range from $50 upwards depending on size. There are three sizes.

Steve DeCoux uses the Lee Nielsen scraper plane, but it was too large for Kiddo's hand.

We get silver and thin super glue from Otto Frei. Tips from http://www.guitarpartsandmore.com/?nav=history and we use ebony from Howard Core.

Ed, thanks for sharing your work and info, there is just never enough about bows on the web.
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Lynn Hannings planes have been cloned, and they are blue anodized aluminum:

http://www.bowhair.com/contents/en-us/d17.html

No way you're going to look like Mister Geppetto handling this one, but it may just get the job done.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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SooT
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lynn's prices are cheaper, and I think more comfortable in the hand to use. Well at least for gentile lady types.
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then there is always the DIY way

http://youtu.be/AVBdPadFOtw

The video shows the should plane assembly, but you can always cut your own wooden parts and play with the bedding angle.

The blade is the SH075, $28 at http://www.hocktools.com/BP.htm

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 642
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another video, regarding Benoit Rolland:
http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/49906045#49906045

It doesn't help with learning, but it is nice to watch.
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Chet Bishop
http://www.bluefiddles.com
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't use a Hock blade in a bow plane. You need a really durable hard edge. Something like M3, the HSS from Starrett red stripe power hacksaw blades which Michael Darnton has talked about. I've had surprisingly good results with a re-hardened Pfeil knife blade for a scraper plane with something like a 60 degree bevel, but I don't know if the edge would hold up if I gave it a normal bevel angle.
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 828
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Bishop wrote:
Does anyone know of a source for Bolander's book? Last I heard, it was long out of print.

Chet

Perhaps here?
http://www.abebooks.com/Violin-Bow-Making-Bolander-John-Alfred/9816564589/bd
Cheers, Mat
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SooT
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andres Sender wrote:
I wouldn't use a Hock blade in a bow plane. You need a really durable hard edge. Something like M3, the HSS from Starrett red stripe power hacksaw blades which Michael Darnton has talked about. I've had surprisingly good results with a re-hardened Pfeil knife blade for a scraper plane with something like a 60 degree bevel, but I don't know if the edge would hold up if I gave it a normal bevel angle.


O darn it, we were just about to purchase some replacement blades for Sally's bow planes from Hock. So Andres what do you suggest in plain English for those of us who have no tool/steel background? Then, how does one make a blade, with very little tools?

Thanks
Sue
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wm_crash
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 140
Location: Wilmington, DE - USA

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hock blades come in 2 flavors: high carbon and A2 hardened. The high carbon get crazy sharp, but don't hold it all that long. The A2 steels don't get as sharp as high carbon - I'd say an 8K grit is as sharp as they get. But they last a lot longer.

Lee Valley produces a similar set of steels, O1 and A2. In addition, they have the recent PVM11 steel which is supposed to get as sharp as O1 and have edge retention of an A2 steel. I have not tried it, and not sure it is available in too many blade types.

High speed steels are a funny business for me, they're meant for power tools because the steel has a formulation to withstand heat without losing its hardening. Crazy edge retention, but does not get as sharp. It is also more difficult to sharpen as it is very hard. Grinder or diamond plates would be your best friend in that case.

All in all, I think even a high carbon blade will last you through several sticks before needing sharpening. The question is how much do you hate sharpening.

I can't address how to make a blade.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan
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SooT
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Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 73
Location: Devon, UK

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The question is how much do you hate sharpening."

Sally would much rather spend time working on the stick than sharpening!! Evil or Very Mad
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Andres Sender
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 274
Location: N. CA

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rigorous testing by people like Brent Beach have found the durability advantages of A2 to be relatively subtle.

Hock's O1 blades don't stay sharp all that long in maple and spruce let alone ebony or pernambuco. I doubt I could get through roughing out a stick with one.

I have sharpened M3 HSS to the point of working well as a soundpost knife. Although I wouldn't recommend it for that purpose because of the lowish edge retention at that bevel angle, modern HSS gets plenty sharp, making its advantages as to durability really stand out.

Sharpening such blades is really easy using the methods of Michael Darnton, and nary a diamond stone in sight.

Sue--some German companies were selling HSS blades a few years ago (Kunz? --and Dick), maybe one of them will fit. Otherwise it's time for cut off wheels and lots of grinding. 8-}
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whatwasithinking
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Joined: 26 Jan 2013
Posts: 209
Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wm_crash wrote:
We are looking at the left side of the plane.

If you can't locate this plane, take a Stanley #75, remove the front part (designed to be removed if I recall correctly), and flip the cutter bevel up. However, I think the Stanley #75 has a 45 degree bed angle. So to achieve the same results, as the Lynn Hannings plane, you'd need the blade ground at roughly 60 degrees.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


The Stanley #75 has a bed angle of 40 degrees, so it looks like I should aim for a 65 degree blade angle, if I want to reach 105 degrees, ala the Hannings plane. Sound right? I don't have any planes with a negative rake, unless I do this to my #75. Of course, it would also be nice to be able to just order new planes, but I can't have everything! I'm curious about how this will work. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by removing the "front part" of the plane, unless you mean the blade retainer.
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