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Cold Bending of Violin Ribs
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DonLeister
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken, I can bend one rib per form (1-5/8" +/- thick) it's the linings that will fit side by side in a similar form.
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I do is bend two upper and lower bout ribs at a time, in the bending forms. I also bend two cc bout pieces - but one at a time in the form that holds two...






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Last edited by ctviolin on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:27 am; edited 2 times in total
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kjb
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.scavm.com/awfribs.htm

the bending article
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Chet Bishop
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the one! Smile
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ollieken
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:10 pm    Post subject: rib forms Reply with quote

Thanks Don & C T I guess their is tricks in all trades just have to find someone that is willing to share them as this forum is proof their is no shortage of help & advice for someone starting out I am going to make a form like the big one I have the small ones . I would like to thank all the posters for the help I get from time to time Ken
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DonLeister
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine are a lot like the SCAVM article example.
I found that I needed to make the curves of my forms a little bit tighter since there was some springback once they came out. Some is not really a problem though since I often wet the ribs as I'm gluing them and that makes them change.

It's really a pleasure to see what ya'll are working on!
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Chet Bishop
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still plodding along on that lion-head viola. This has not been a very productive summer, so far. I will post photos when I get it a little further along.
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Ok you guy`s Reply with quote

ollieken wrote:
How do you manage to bend more than one rib at once or
am i not reading the post correct I have to put in a lot of nasty words in to get one right at times I have to take some of that medicine by the thimble full that CT talked about on another post Enjoy seeing posting of pic Ken


The fact is that two are as easy to bend for me as one.
Since I don't have any actual rib material cut for a new violin I'll use therse scraps to show how I do it...

First I wet them through, then I put a scrap of plastic in between them, so they do not grab one another and are able to slide past one another, thern I put them in the form, and slowly tighten the tight part of the curve that is where the block is, down, and put clamps on the large curve (which would bend around the mold fairly easily anyway), but what the heck, might as well get them curved now.

Then I let them dry in the mold for a day or two, or until I'm ready for them. Usually I'll put them outside in the New Mexico sun to dry... I believe that being outside helps the wood somehow - perhaps it simply helps things dry out completely.












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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or maybe it's the view that causes the rib material to dry so well?

[img][/img]
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Last edited by ctviolin on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:38 am; edited 2 times in total
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me add that after a day or two in the sun, they come out of the form.

If I need to use them right away, fine, they get glued to the block right away.

- I make sure they are dry completely and let them air out completely - but if I don't use them right away, they go back in the form.

I did have a pair waiting in the form for almost a year once.

All they did was stay bent. No problem with the rib material. It still worked perfectly.
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been thinking about this bending method a bit lately...

The only thing missing from the way they bend commonly now-a-days, is the heat. The heat of a bending iron that is. An electric bending iron most likely. (think about it - electricity, available today, but not in the past...)

Which got me thinking that, no matter how the ribs are bent - it probably isn't exactly how they bent them in the past. (Unless they bent them cold and with a form, like I'm showing here - but I believe there are some heat or burn marks left on some of the great violins of the past [inside the ribs] making it evident that at least some makers did use heat... probably from a fire)

But today is today - and this is a method (the cold bending, that is) that works well for me today.
As does bending with my electric bending iron.
So, I'll use both or either method as I make a violin, so, I'm not selling this method as the only way to go. It's simply a method that is possible to use that works well.
Cold bending, and bending with my iron, is what I do... I'll use whatever works best, for what I need at that time.

And so it goes.
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Chet Bishop
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we know of any evidence for the old boys having used cold-bending?

Fire works OK...I have used a hot stove-pipe on a large bend. I do prefer more control, though. Bear in mind that, until about a century ago, that is how people heated "sad-irons". too-- the clothes-irons of that time.

I suspect that, as you say, a literal chunk of iron was what was being used, and that it was heated with fire, either directly or indirectly. Not being "pretty", like the antique clothes-irons, nor of obvious use, I expect it was quickly relegated to scrap when the maker died, as no one knew what the thing was for. Iron is a useful material, and people have recycled it for ages, out of necessity. Maybe it got re-purposed into horseshoes...who knows?

"Beating swords into plowshares"...and vice-versa?
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Bishop wrote:


Do we know of any evidence for the old boys having used cold-bending?



No. But think about this for a minute. If anyone did cold bend any time, what evidence would be left? No burn marks?

So, this is a simple, effective method that I will use today, it is so abysmally simple, that if someone in the past didn't use it - it would greatly surprise me. Perhaps using vastly different exact method, but generally the same technique.

I'm saying that, perhaps you or anyone might want to try something similar...


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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone mind if I change the name of this thread to "Cold Bending of Ribs", edit it a bit to reflect that, and make it sticky?
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Last edited by Michael Darnton on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but I didn't have a mold with corner or end blocks ready - but this will give you a general idea of how well cold bending can work.

Simple, effective - what does the probable past methodology really matter, when a current method works extremely well?

I ask this, with knowledge of the fact that the process has no evidence of use in the past, because it's inherent properties would leave no evidence of being used anyway.
The fact is, that it's up to you to guess about the probabilities of this having ever been used or not. In any guise or in any way.

?
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