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Where do I need to learn to become the best?
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J. Goldsmith Strings
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Joined: 09 Oct 2013
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Where do I need to learn to become the best? Reply with quote

Hi there,
I'm Joe. I'm a student in the UK about to start College, and I want to be a violin maker. I love violins, and this is the kind of job I can see myself doing my whole life, no matter how little I earn. I want to be the best, but I don't know how to get there! What are my options once I've left school? So far I've thought of these:

An apprenticeship in Cremona: Is this a feasible idea? Will I learn a lot?

University: Is the qualification worth anything? Am I going to learn anything on the course? Seems to me that, as it's not specific to violin making, the course won't help much.

An apprenticeship in England: Is this path held in the same views as a Cremonese apprenticeship?

Violin making school: What's it worth? Where are they? What would I need to get in?

I'd really appreciate any advice.
Thank you very much,
Joe

PS this is my first post here, after feeling inspired by all the posts of the more knowledgeable on the forum! Thanks for inspiring me
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FiddleDoug
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apprenticeships for an untrained person would be really hard to find, wouldn't pay much, and it might take a long time before you actually learn to make a violin. You'll spend your time doing set-up work, cleaning the shop, and doing other such menial work for quite a while. If you really want to learn violin making, go to one of the schools. Plan at least 3 years. Look up the schools, make some phone calls, and see which one fits the best.
After all that, you'll still have a long road ahead, as you won't have a "name" that will command high prices for your instruments, or a reputation for good work. This is a word of mouth business, and violin players have their favorite luthiers whom they always go to, and trust. Tough to break into that. You might also have a back up plan for another job to pay for your needs until you get established in an existing shop, or on your own.
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Michael Darnton
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a list of violin making schools:
http://www.vanzandtviolins.com/vn-schools.htm

There seem to be a few in the UK. Newark is the one that's the best known. I see that there's also a one-week summer class in Cambridge--that might be a good way to get a start.

If you're going to be the best, it's essential that you get to see the best violins and learn from them. The usual way to do that is to work in a high-class restoration shop, and branch off into making. I think nearly all of the best makers I can think of started that way. The day when those shops would take just anyone is over--you really need to go to school like Newark if you're serious.

College is a side trip, but I believe it's an essential one. It will make you smarter, and that isn't going to hurt a thing.
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kjb
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

having a backup to make money is not a bad idea, you will still have to eat in the long run. take a look at how china is affecting the market, they will also making high end violins, and there are a lot of makers . supply and demand
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Janito
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contact Neil Ertz for Newark feedback.

Contact Jonathan Woolston - works in Cambridge and Royal Academy.

I know the Cambridge Summer Course - speak to Juliet Barker.

These 3 folks are friendly and very helpful
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ctviolin
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Joined: 07 May 2009
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Location: Roswell

PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Where do I need to learn to become the best? Reply with quote

J. Goldsmith Strings wrote:
Hi there,
I'm Joe. I'm a student in the UK about to start College, and I want to be a violin maker. I love violins, and this is the kind of job I can see myself doing my whole life, no matter how little I earn. I want to be the best, but I don't know how to get there! What are my options once I've left school? So far I've thought of these:


I'd really appreciate any advice.
Thank you very much,
Joe


Like any art, violin making is something you can and probably will do, if that's your goal.
As far as being or becoming "the best" maker, well, that remains to be seen.
It isn't a field where the facts are all laid out for you, and all you have to do is follow them, anywhere - in Cremona or anywhere else on earth today.

The master makers of the past are all dead now, and the place where they once made violins is incidental to making today - any knowledge that they had is gone today, it's not "secret" or not available to the public, it simply does not exist, and it cannot be found in Cremona, or, as I already suggested, any where else.

As far as being "the best", well, again, that remains to be seen, as, everyone who starts out thinks something along those lines.
When you learn, you will progress as far as you progress. Perhaps you will be the best, but it will take you a lifetime to find anything near that out.

Just learning how to make a decent violin is going to take you many years, so, perhaps you should start now and you'll begin to realize the scope of what you are going to require of yourself, to actually do something - anything like this.
Of course, saying that you'd like to do this is, in a very real way, like saying you're going to do anything.
Saying it is easy, doing it is a lifetime's work. Even deciding HOW and where you are going to learn, is going to be something you'll have to discover simply by doing it, somehow - like the rest of us or any of us had/has to.

Good Luck to you on this effort. I wish you nothing but the best!
Please post about your progress. I want to see your first violin at least!
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J. Goldsmith Strings
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Where do I need to learn to become the best? Reply with quote

ctviolin wrote:
I want to see your first violin at least!


Challenge accepted! I'll be starting my first soon, once I've gathered all the wood etc (which for me is a feat in itself!). Hopefully, one day you'll be seeing my 100th!

Thank you to everyone who's offered me advice. A local(ish) violin shop has offered me a broken violin to restore and study from, and I've got another one here that I'm currently restoring. I've also been offered some tools, which I'll pick up over the half-term holidays, and I ordered Juliet Barker's violin making book yesterday (my local luthier, David Dyke, suggested it to me as he knows her personally).

Thanks again for all the advice, I will definitely take it to heart.

Joe
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FiddleDoug
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Violin restoration is an art in itself. I would highly recommend getting "Violin Restoration, A Manual for Violin Makers" by Weisshaar and Shipman. It's expensive, but learning how to do restorations CORRECTLY is a must! Lots of good instruments have been really screwed up by incorrect restoration. Sure, you might be working on an old, inexpensive junker violin, but you're practicing for working on the good ones.

There will be lots of tool expenses along the way. Just consider really good books to be necessary tools. Workshops are another worthwhile expense. Nothing like learning directly from a real master!
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FiddleDoug wrote:

Nothing like learning directly from a real master!


I agree completely.

If you get the chance do not pass it up.
Not only will it shave years off the "learning " phase, it will cement your decision either way - to continue or to find something else to do with your life...

As, you will quickly get a true idea of what's involved in making these things (for a living).
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ctviolin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Where do I need to learn to become the best? Reply with quote

J. Goldsmith Strings wrote:


Challenge accepted! I'll be starting my first soon, once I've gathered all the wood etc (which for me is a feat in itself!). Hopefully, one day you'll be seeing my 100th!

Thanks again for all the advice, I will definitely take it to heart.

Joe



I think you are serious about this, which is not a common thing!

Again - good luck and many good wishes in this adventure! Please do keep in touch here.

ct
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J. Goldsmith Strings
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spend most of my holidays working for a guitar luthier which, although not the same as violin making, has been a great experience.

I've added loads of violin books to my Christmas list, and all the money I earn goes on books and tools. I've filled notebooks with jottings and doodles, and sometimes I just sit with a violin and study it: I've learned a lot just doing that!

Yes, I'm serious about violin making. I'm going to college to get some qualifications (just in case) and in the meantime I'll try and build my first. I'm not expecting anything great, in fact I wouldn't mind if it was awful, because then I'd at least be learning.

Thanks to everyone,
Joe
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J. Goldsmith Strings
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and I've owned a double bass I restored for a year, I know how to repair loose seams and cracks! I've set up violins before and been told that the set up was fantastic. The violin at the moment has already had two seams repaired (with hideglue of course) and I've removed the fingerboard to reattach it properly (it was peeling off). I also made sure to keep the fingerboard taped to the neck, to insure the edges stay sharp.

Thanks again,
Joe
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Goldsmith Strings wrote:
....with hideglue of course....
Joe

I suppose you already are aware that there is good hide glue and cheap hide glue and never to be used liquid hide glue and different strengths (which are different than dilution) for different parts of the violin, and storage and reuse conditions and temperature considerations when melting.
If you search for hide glue on this forum and google, most of the answers are there... but if any questions remain... don't hesitate to ask!!

In case it has not been mentioned, this link is pure gold!
http://violinmag.com/ its a work in progress but there is a lot there and substantive in every word.

Good luck Joe!
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J. Goldsmith Strings
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liquid hide glue's evil! Hiss hiss...

Liquid hide glue's got stuff in it (urea etc) that means it never cures. I've got #315 hide glue which I was given by a bass luthier from the states.

I've still got a lot to learn, but I suppose that's half the fun, right? Stradivari was experimenting til he died, and look at all he achieved!
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pmccombs
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J. Goldsmith Strings wrote:
...
I've still got a lot to learn, but I suppose that's half the fun, right? Stradivari was experimenting til he died, and look at all he achieved!


In addition to books and classes, there's a lot of great information in this forum, and you can spend days browsing the archives.
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