Violin Forum/Message Board

[Spudchucker]

Hi everyone, first post!

I'm new to playing violin (been doing it by ear for a little over 3 months now) and I recently bought a very old violin from a pawn shop for $135. It has HOPF stamped on the back, and while the research I did before buying it said chances are it's fake, it sounded far better than my borrowed Chinese violin despite being very out of tune so I happily brought it home.

After tuning it and discovering that unlike my cheap violin, this one would resonate with some incredible overtones if my fingers landed just right, I'm starting to actually think it might be the real deal. (I'm not kidding when I say it's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard/felt!) Unfortunately someone has already ruined the finish with a terrible varnish job (more on that later) but the sound and build quality seem pretty impressive to my untrained ears!


Before going too far, I was wondering if I could get some opinions and thoughts on this violin based on pictures and a sound clip played by a newbie? (yours truly!)

Here's the whole thing (that extra chin rest is gently holding a small area that came unglued together):



Close-up of the wood grain:



Side shot:



"HOPF"



Cheap neck someone replaced the original with at some point (probably the same guy who wrecked the original finish)




Here's a short youtube clip of me playing it- Bearing in mind that I'm only 3 months into playing, my bow is nylon, and the violin's strings are ancient, here's the best I could give you for a sound clip if it helps with identifying it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm6X-YzHGlY



I have plenty of follow-up questions and ideas, and will hopefully be playing this violin for many decades, but I figure ID'ing it would be a good, simple place to start. Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might share!

[mr_violin]

Hi Spudchucker,
I believe you talked to me on the phone this week about this violin.
Best thing I can tell you is, bring it over and let me have a look at it.

The best thing about it is that you like it. other than that , it most likely is not worth any more than what you paid for it.

Larry Lewis

[Spudchucker]

[Spudchucker]

Also, if you don't mind my asking, could you tell me what the determining factors are in what you said? I do recognize that the most you could say without seeing it in person is educated speculation, but I'm a very curious individual by nature so I would love a back story if you're up for it

I'm also very curious how this compares to other violins based on sound-quality alone (regardless of if it's real or fake,) because I've been around a few student violins in my short venture, and they aren't even in the same ballpark despite costing twice as much. For what it's worth, the note played at 24-26 seconds and 28-29 seconds into the clip I linked represent what this violin is capable playing like on almost any note; I just don't have the ability to hit the tiny spots needed to produce the bell sound with any consistency yet (especially with these really-old strings) so you don't hear it resonating like it would be if played by more capable hands

[mr_violin]

Well , you are right, I must have talk to a different person. Funny thing though, Just the same thing happened to a young man in Chicago this week.
Goes to show how many of these violins there are out there.

If it is stamped with the name Hopf on the back you can be sure it is only a student level violin. They can be made to play and sound pretty good but the value is still in the lower range . Like I said before , if you like it that’s grate. But it is worth about what you paid. Remember the sound have very little to do with the value. Also , because you are just a new player, you could not even play well enough to really test it out to say how well it plays. that is no knock on you, it is just a fact.
To bad you aren`t closer, I was going to offer to help you get that open seam glued .
Larry

[Scott S]

What makes you think that the varnish and neck have been changed?

Scott
_________________
As always, send lawyers, guns, and money

[Cliff Green]

I agree with Larry. What you have is a standard student violin from Germany. It's great that the violin sounds good and needs minimal repairs. Please don't mess with the varnish. You're not likely to improve anything and you will actually decrease its value and desirability to anyone with more than a passing fancy for violins.
An open seam is easy and inexpensive repair. You could even learn to do it yourself with a minimal investment.

[Spudchucker]

Larry- It definitely seemed common enough on my Google search- How many of these student violins did they end up making? And on that note, were there different grades of student violins available?

Also, out of curiosity, does the name HOPF on the back of the violins that show up on eBay mean they are student level as well?



Scott- It was done terribly; the varnish is low-quality and dripping all over the place, the modern fingerboard and neck had varnish accidentally brushed onto them in random places when it was redone, and the original finish is still somewhat visible in a spot or two



Cliff- Sorry to disappoint but I have already started going to work on refinishing it- the finish was butchered and there is some beautiful wood under it all that I want to make glow again. I love wood and working with it artistically, so this is pretty standard territory for me. It may not be original, but it will still look well-done when I'm finished with it! Money means very little to me, so I'm ok with no one wanting to buy it at a higher price

I didn't realize that regluing it could be done with a little research- Looks like I might just take on that project as well!




Also, bit of a side question if anyone wants to chime in, is it abnormal for a violin to resonate strongly enough that every note slowly fades away when you stop playing it -if you hit it EXACTLY right- sort of like the hum you get after blowing into a bottle? That's actually what I like so much about this violin, but I've never really heard it like this before. Change a few notes just right in quick succession and it seems to come alive

I guess 150 years of playing it breaks it in a fair bit?

[Michael Darnton]

The varnish and neck are fine.

Not every Hopf with a brand under the button is garbage. Even the earliest ones, by the real makers of the Hopf family were similarly branded. Your violin doesn't look like one of the lowest type, and I think you should take it to a good shop for an opinion--a shop that actually deals in this type of thing and would know one Hopf from another.

You need to not mess with things like the varnish, or you'll soon turn your violin into a violin genuinely worth a lot less less than $135. . . even if it's currently worth several times more than that.
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[Scott S]

I liked the varnish, it had a nice look for what it was. Drippy and almost black is what these look like at this age. If you attempt any gluing, Please use HOT hide glue and no other.

Scott
_________________
As always, send lawyers, guns, and money

[Spudchucker]

I do plan on getting it looked at by someone who knows more at some point

The varnish was already genuinely ruined though- There are two very obvious layers, and the second layer has to go (these pictures make it look much better than it actually is.) The original layer of varnish on the maple doesn't come off easily like it did on the spruce (which may have been removed already,) so I might save that as the original finish on the back and sides, but I'm still up in the air with it because the second layer of varnish seeped into a lot of the nicks and scuffs, and it clashes pretty badly with the more golden hue of the original finish.

Ultimately, I want this violin to be a work of art. It has stains, dings, and workmanship that make it obviously very old regardless of what changes on the surface, so I intend to work with that and make it glow again while still retaining the character it has acquire over the years. I plan on playing it for a very long time, so even my changes will be antique by the time I'm done with it

How involving would it be to have someone replace the modern neck with an older one from a parts violin? If it isn't too expensive, that would be a much more aesthetic road to take than keeping the replacement neck IMO, which is turning gray now on top of already looking very out-of-place

Thanks again for the input everyone!


-edit- Will familiarize myself with the hot hide glue thread, Scott!

[Michael Darnton]

The varnish and neck are fine, but it does seem that you are absolutely determined to ruin the violin, so what can I say?
_________________
new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com

[Scott S]

I believe that the complaints that you have about this varnish is the way that it was ORIGINALLY made and the way that it should be. I believe that your complaint about the neck is a result of the fingerboard drying out of its natural oil. A light coat of mineral oil (baby oil) on the fingerboard should fix that. I see NO SIGNS of the neck being changed, maybe some sloppy glue from a repair that can be cleaned off.

Scott

Sorry Michael, simultaneous posts.
_________________
As always, send lawyers, guns, and money

[Spudchucker]

There are two VERY distinctly different varnishes. The terribly-applied top layer, and the beautiful gold bottom layer. It is worn clean down to the wood on the bottom of the back from use, and yet there is a brand new layer of sloppy brown on top of that- I am in no way the first person to change the finish, I promise!

That said, I do want to make this into a beautiful violin once again, so any help you have to offer on that subject is very much appreciated

IE: can the original finish on the sides and bottom be salvaged? It is finely cracked throughout so it's obviously old, and it doesn't come off easily with alcohol. I stopped doing any removing on the sides when it became apparent that the original finish was still holding on. That said, if it's an all or nothing deal, do you have any recommendations on what steps I could take to not alter sound quality? And is a neck change a risk because it might change the sound?

[Spudchucker]

That's a shot of the two varnish layers on the back, along with the bare spot that was worn through the gold layer but not the brown layer, which had no real wear despite being the surface layer