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Making my first bow
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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 641
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are certainly absolutely right about that, Ed.

I just had easy access to the stainless (Good Will store) and am comfortable with hard metals, since that has been my profession for the last 30+ years...but I will probably order some silver and try that sometime soon. I guess part of the problem with my working with ANY precious metal would be that I would feel obliged to save every tiny scrap, etc. where, with the stainless, I feel completely free to discard them. And, as this part was austenitic stainless, it wasn't too hard, anyway.

This will probably be my last time to use the ebony ...it was some ebony I bought from Gilmer's, a local exotic hardwoods store, and it was abominably difficult to bend. Vulcanized man-made fiber sounds pretty good after that experience. Smile

The silver sounds like it is a treat to work with. I will probably "graduate" to that pretty soon. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

Chet
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byacey
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Joined: 29 Mar 2008
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good Chet! Wouldn't it be easier to make the ebony slightly thicker and concave to match the curve of the head? After gluing it could be shaped down to the desired thickness,and it wouldn't be under any stress.

Are you brass brazing the stainless, or welding? I've silver soldered lots of stainless, and it brazes really nice. The only drawback I can see is it may eventually tarnish on the join compared to the surrounding stainless.
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Mat Roop
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 822
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Bishop wrote:

This will probably be my last time to use the ebony ...it was some ebony I bought from Gilmer's, a local exotic hardwoods store, and it was abominably difficult to bend. Vulcanized man-made fiber sounds pretty good after that experience. Smile

Chet


Hi Chet... If it were me, I'd stick to ebony... after all, it is classic. I have not done exactly what you are doing (I buy tips pre lined with ebony), but ebony does bend OK as long as you have it quite hot.
Story... I have a violin that belongs to family... its a VSO abomination, but they asked to have it fixed and as family matters go, no is not an answer, and it will be a freebee to boot! The finger board is totally worn out because it is painted soft maple, and I don't want to spend the $'s on a good ebony FB... so I will use an ebony FB that was replaced from a previous job because it was warped downward and I was keeping it for the wood. So I decided to to try and bend it back and use it as the replacement fb. I placed the fb on a block with a formed cross block and with a clamp at both ends bent the fb to the right curve and applied some water and then heat from a paint stripper heat gun. After a good thorough heating I let it cool while clamped overnight. Came out perfect... Its been 2 weeks now and it is holding its shape.
So the moral to my story is that with high heat from a stripper gun the ebony in the thickness of a tip liner should bend quite easily. Maybe for a small part like this, a steel clamp or strap over a shaped block should work well....FWIW

Thanks for posting... love to read other peoples stories!
Cheers, Mat
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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've bent fingerboards lots of times, and, as you say, it worked fine-- I have no idea why this one was such a bear to bend. Maybe I will try it again sometime.

BYacey; The "technical" difference between brazing and soldering is the difference in heat-- both depend upon adhesion rather than fusion (which is where welding fits in), but solder (by definition) melts at temperatures at or below 840 degrees Fahrenheit, while "brazing" involves filler metals that melt above that temperature.

Silver "solder" is actually a form of brazing, as it melts way above that range-- the silver solder I bought says about 1200 deg. as I recall (I don't have the package in front of me.)

Ideally, there is not supposed to be anything more thatn a tiny line showing where the soldered joint is exposed, but I expect you are right, and that line may tarnish a little. Guess I will find out. Smile

I guess if I really wanted to be fancy I could miter the corner or something, so the joint came right at the edge of the ferrule, but I think I will just do the standard corner joint and call it good, this time at least. Ed just about has me talked into switching to silver, anyway. Smile
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byacey
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, call me Bill, b is my first initial in my user name.

The silver solder alloy I have won't flow until the steel is a dull red at least. I suspect the flux I've been using is nothing more than a thick borax mixture with water. If you have a really tight seam, I'm sure it'll be barely visible after polishing.
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Chet Bishop
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Bill, that is about right:

Carbon steel glows dull red (in a dark room) beginning at around 900 degrees, so stainless is probably about the same, and if you are talking dull red in a well-lighted area, probably more like 1100-1200 degrees. We call it silver "solder" but it is really a type of brazing, just not with brass.

Some fluxes are borax, as you say, but they vary, so I have no idea what you have. It has to be something that will reduce the surface tension of the liquid metal so that it can be drawn into that tight seam by capillary action. When it works correctly, it can be a very strong bond.

You probably already know this, but if you look at a new carbide-tipped saw blade, you can see the thin silvery line where they silver-soldered the tips in place. Many times, either deliberately or accidentally, I have sawn through a nail, lengthwise, when cutting used lumber...the carbide tips held, and did not even seem to be dulled. I have seen blades that have lost a tooth, but I have never had it happen personally. That silver-solder stuff is really strong.

Sorry for the information overload...I teach this stuff in lecture classes at work, so when you put a nickel in, you get the whole song. Smile (Better not ask about other types of joining (welding). We don't do silver solder, so that one is short. the others are where we make our money, so there are many days of classes about them.) We build barges and railcars (freight). There is a website, if you want to look at some new freight cars, or watch a barge launch: http://www.gbrx.com

(edit: Barge launches here...
http://www.gbrx.com/Videos.php?expandable=2
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byacey
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Chet. I've used some silver solder that has a flux coating like brass brazing rods, but I find the borax paste used with bare silver solder wire generally works better for small areas.
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