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How do I better understand the scales?
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Ode to Tragedy
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: How do I better understand the scales? Reply with quote

There seems to be a bewildering number of scales- major minor, harmonics, flat, natural, tone...what does all this mean and what should I be most concerned with atm as a beginner?

I want to practice my scales and learn to do them without having to look at the neck while playing so then I can read the sheet music more fluidly while playing. What scales should I be practicing?

Also I'm happy to do my homework on reading about the scales and music theory but it is really confusing me atm so someone please help untangle the mess of what I should concern myself with right now.
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Lemuel
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Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: How do I better understand the scales? Reply with quote

Ode to Tragedy wrote:
There seems to be a bewildering number of scales- major minor, harmonics, flat, natural, tone...what does all this mean and what should I be most concerned with atm as a beginner?

I want to practice my scales and learn to do them without having to look at the neck while playing so then I can read the sheet music more fluidly while playing. What scales should I be practicing?

Also I'm happy to do my homework on reading about the scales and music theory but it is really confusing me atm so someone please help untangle the mess of what I should concern myself with right now.


I can understand. Looking over the threads, I think I went overboard with the information. To any beginner, it is overwhelming.

Ok.

First of all, do you have a piano keyboard? Even a small keyboard will help. We'll have to start off on a foundation and build on it. Please get back to me. We'll be going over major scales first.
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have a midi keyboard if that helps, it's only a short one though.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many keys do you have? Do you know where C is?
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

where C is depends on whether I press the scale up or down so it;s relatvie.

There's 15 white keys.

Can you recommend me any exhaustive yet approachable books on the subject so I can take my time learning it.

I bought a book on music theory hoping that would help but it only offers the explanation of what symbols mean not a proper explanation of the scales.

I want a good book with a nice writing style as the ones I've read so far are incredibly dry like they were written for a robot.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ode to Tragedy wrote:
where C is depends on whether I press the scale up or down so it;s relatvie.

There's 15 white keys.

Can you recommend me any exhaustive yet approachable books on the subject so I can take my time learning it.

I bought a book on music theory hoping that would help but it only offers the explanation of what symbols mean not a proper explanation of the scales.

I want a good book with a nice writing style as the ones I've read so far are incredibly dry like they were written for a robot.


Ode, I haven't forgotten about you. Weekdays are usually very busy for me as I have to work.

Since correct hearing is key to our discussion and learning scales, it would be important to normalize your keyboard to the correct pitch.

I recommend you go to your local music store and pick up a foldout of Alfred's Basic Keyboard Chart. It is the full length of a regular piano keyboard (88 keys). Tape it on the wall near your keyboard. It's a good aid for learning about any scale. I have included a small section of the keyboard below.



The violin open A (marked in red) shows where on the music staff and keyboard it is.

Here is my violin open A. This note is used by orchestras as reference note for all instruments to tune to. It would be good for you to learn to hear it and memorize it, especially for the violin.

http://www.violins.ca/audio/Violin_Open_A.mp3

Make sure your piano is set so that the A above middle C has the same pitch as the above recorded open A. Although I can tune my violin most of the time without a tuner or piano, I check the piano's A from time to time.

In regards to reading and workbook material there are three things I have used, all very good.

The first is Mel Bay's Theory and Harmony for Everyone by L. Dean Bye which is easiest to read and covers the basics.

The second is called Keys to Music Rudiments (Boris Berlin, Molly Sclater, Kathryn Sinclair). You can also get student workbooks No. 1 to 6. It is recommended by the Royal Conservatory of Music. This is also easy to understand and is much more comprehensive. It is published by Gordon V. Thompson Music.

The third is called Elementary Rudiments of Music (Barbara Wharram), published by Frederick Harris Music Co. Limited. It's also recommended by Royal Conservatory of Music.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are up to it, I would like to work on helping you understand the Solfege symbols (Do, Re, Mi...) and to learn how to hear them. Once you do, you will know what key any music is in just by listening to it. Once you hear it, you'll be on your way to improvise (play in any key). I'm not making any promises. Sometimes it clicks in faster with some people.

Look forward to hear from you.
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for detailed responses.

Hmm what would this Solfrage symbols studying entail?

Did you mean interactively, or in back and forths as we are doing now?

If the former I was thinking time zone might be an issue; if the latter I'll give it a shot.

I'll check out those books now. I like to have reference material that I can go to check back while learning anything; helps me along the way, like a map.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ode to Tragedy wrote:
Thanks for detailed responses.

Hmm what would this Solfrage symbols studying entail?

Did you mean interactively, or in back and forths as we are doing now?

If the former I was thinking time zone might be an issue; if the latter I'll give it a shot.

I'll check out those books now. I like to have reference material that I can go to check back while learning anything; helps me along the way, like a map.


The best way to get used to the Solfrage symbols is to sing the song you are playing, with them as illustrated in the example below. I only wrote the symbols for a small part of the music. As an exercise, see if you can come up with the symbols for the rest of the music. I'll help you if you need it.

A copy of the well known Bach piece, "Minuet" is shown below. The red indicators are my comments to illustrate this post. Key signatures are always indicated on the left of each staff line. The key signature shows the number of sharps or flats (or none in which case it is always C major or A minor).

Notice that the top most line of the staff passes right through the middle of the sharp symbol. That means all notes on this line (F) will be played sharp (F#). It also means that all F notes in other higher or lower octaves will be sharp also. A key signature of one sharp means that this piece is in the key of G major.



You maybe asking "How do you know the name of the key given the number of sharps symbols on the left"?

The rule for finding the name of the key given the number of sharps is to take the last sharp listed (in this case F#) and take the name of the next alphabet up (in this case G). So the key is G major.

It also means that the Solfege symbol "Do" (the beginning of every scale) is the G note.

Please let me know if you understand this so far.
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, this is over-complicating things for me I think Smile.

I may refer back to it and let you know once I do but I don't wanna get bogged down in it atm and will stick to my practice.

Appreciate the effort on your part though Smile.

I am getting quicker at knowing what note I am playing and reading music now. I think that was more my issue before and I wasn't too good at articulating it.

I've been practicing my scales without looking to get me better at reading while playing which has been helpful.
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Lemuel
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mind if I ask what you didn't understand?

Ok, then, maybe it's premature at the moment...I don't really know how far you've gone in music. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not that I don't understand it but rather I don't feel it is too relevant to me atm. As I said I think it was my poor explanation before which led you on a bit of a wild goose chase in that regard so my apologies for that.
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Benedict White
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK... Scales.

Start... D major 1 octave, it's pip squeak easy. All where the fingers fall on the D and A strings.

When you have done that, do G major 1 octave then two. (over 1, start on the G string and its the same as D major, finger fall all the way).

Then do G major 2 octaves, which is finger fall all the way up to the C on the A string which is a short or "squished" position and the G on the E string which is the same.

See for example here:

http://www.folkofthewood.com/page3330.htm

Also note that each note should be sounded with an almost full stroke of the bow.

When you have done those, we can start on the arpegios of those scales then we can move to more scales.
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Ode to Tragedy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another question.

On the sheet music how do I know if a C is a C normal or a C#?

I am using the ABC book of violin and I find it pretty annoying cos it says it's for absolute beginners but has no explanations of what the notes mean.

I was just trying to play 'home on the range' and every C sounded off.

It was only by trial and error that I realized that the low C was the one which made it sound correct.

I could not tell any reference in the book to say that.

How would you know if you didn't know the piece already?
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Benedict White
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A C is sharp if there are two or more sharps in the scale.

No sharps or flats is C Major. 1 sharp is G Major and is sharp on F only (and that is all F's, not just the one where the sharp appears on the stave), two sharps is D major where F and C is sharp and again and always this applies to all C's and F's. A Major has 3 sharps, the additional one being G.

Hope that helps!

So how many sharps are there in that piece?
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