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Minerals in ground
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Dave Chandler
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Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 682
Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:44 am    Post subject: Minerals in ground Reply with quote

Its too quiet around here, so here's something I'm working on.

I was reading another post and someone mentioned "isinglass" but I think they had it confused with something else, but it did make me think of something. I have mica (isinglass is just large sheet mica) all over my neighborhood, so I ground some up and added it to a sample of my yellow ground varnish.

Although it left lots of bumps that I'm going to have to polish down to level it out, it did surprise me how much more intense the color became. The right end of the rib piece in the photos has the mica in the varnish, the left end does not. Quite a contrast , same amount of varnish.

[img][/img]

Below I've tilted the piece so you can see the bumps I need to level out. The pink is reflected from some nearby object.
[img][/img]

Below looking straight on, notice how much darker the right end with the mica in it.
[img][img][/img]

I'll add more photos after I've polished this down and put a coat of regular varnish over it.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isinglass is fish-glue, usually from the swim bladders of sturgeon (Strong and clear, as I recall, but I have never used it.)...but it will be interesting to see what your mica addition does.
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Chet Bishop
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L P Reedy
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Location: Brevard, NC

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isinglass also means "mica." We had a wood stove with an isinglass window when I was growing up.

Those bumps may be trouble. I would grind the stuff as fine as you can, then sift it through something like a nylon stocking or finer if needed.
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Dave Chandler
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Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LP, I agree, it is transparent stuff, I did not sift for the finest, but was checking to see what would happen with it in a varnish. I set my sample out in the sun to cure, and it rained, so it may be a day or two before I get any further result. I have lots of the stuff, and lots of varnish as I just made a batch of about a half gallon, so may try some more samples, and as you say, sift it a little better. Because its NOT brittle like glass, it doesn't grind very well at all. It soft of bends itself around the pestle. I might try my wife's coffee grinder (shhhhhh!!!)
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo
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Dave Chandler
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, the coffee grinder did the trick, but it took forever. The stuff just flies around in circles in there, but after about 10 minutes got it down to a fine powder, now I've put it in my mortar and pestle, and will grind some more, and let you know what happens with this in varnish.

Ya'll have a great day!
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

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Chet Bishop
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Lyle, that was a new one for me.. I had remembered the fish-glue stuff, so when I looked it up online and that was the only definition ofered, I thought, "Yup! That's what I thought it was!"

So, this time, I looked it up with the word "mica" alongside it and stove-window mica was the only definition that came up. Smile

Thanks for straightening me out.
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Dave Chandler
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not seeing any benefit but may try a few more experiments.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

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Dave Chandler
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Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having left this alone for some time, I stumbled on the scrap I was working on. Today I was looking at it under the light, and you could see the individual pieces sparkling through.

I put a coat of clear varnish on it and the individual sparkles disappeared. However, there seems to be a lot more sparkle under the varnish, but not the individual small speckles. Could this be like a lense over a light bulb, it diffuses the light. May try a dark varnish and see if it still sparkles through.

Always some distraction when you're avoiding actually working on a new violin, isn't there?
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo
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Dave Chandler
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Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abandoning this project, it just looks too unnatural.

[img][/img]
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

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Chet Bishop
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave,

before you utterly abandon it, have you considered rubbing the mica powder into the wood, with only a very light liquid carrier, then rubbing as much as possible back off before applying the ground/sealer/varnish, etc? That seems to be how Roger Hargrave applies his mineral ground. I wonder if there is simply too much of the mica in the coating...

Chet
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Dave Chandler
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the particles are too large. I may have to filter it down to a dust.
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo
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Chet Bishop
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if you could get (or jury-rig) a ball-mill of sorts. I think I knew someone who made one out of a drum full of marbles, but I don't recall the details..the point is, they ground stuff down to "nano" size with very little effort.
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fjodor
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year we got some new crushed stone on the road to the summer cottage. I noticed there was a lot of mica there glimmering in the sun. I collected a few fist fulls of mica flakes, thinking about experimenting with it in a violin ground.
On hindsight I think it would be to cumbersome to grind i fine enough. It's also possible to buy fine ground mica powder quite cheply, (ie from Kremer), so maybe it's not worth the effort?
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Dave Chandler
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about finely crushed and filtered obsidian powder?
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Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo
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kjb
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

obsidian is pretty hard stuff, I think . I think in cosmetics they use insects
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