View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
ollieken Super Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 281 Location: New Brunswick Canada
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: Label in violin |
|
|
I have been scratching my head about this for a while then I got a splinter in my finger so I thought I better ask here .
Is there a way tell if a Label is marked 1904 or 1894 that the violin was not made at later time than the label is dated just wondering. Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dave Chandler Super Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 691 Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IF I think its a good, honest label, my (novice) approach would be to brush it clean with a soft dry brush, then photograph. Using a photo editing program, try adjusting the exposure, then contrast adjustments, maybe even some color adjustments and It might pop for you. _________________ Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill
"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo |
|
Back to top |
|
|
L P Reedy Super Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 Posts: 276 Location: Brevard, NC
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can't tell that by the label. If it says "Bubba Smith, Podunk, USA (or any other country not known for fiddle production)" and the workmanship is consistent with the label, it is probably correct. If it claims to be by a maker anyone has heard of and the workmanship is "factory grade," likely not. Probably doesn't really matter unless it is an exceptional instrument. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ollieken Super Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 281 Location: New Brunswick Canada
|
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:16 pm Post subject: Label |
|
|
I guess if it is in good shape & plays well, sounds good that`s all that matters I was looking at an old Catalogue
& nice old fiddles $15 $20 may had a strad label in some
Thank you for the reply not going to get anymore splinters over this
ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1286 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
TMI, probably:
The first point of learning expertise is to guess a date. I was encouraged to look at violins in a certain order (try to know everything you can possibly know, possibly even the maker, from the back, then look at the front, and head, last--label, never) , and that was the first thing to try to learn to guess; age; continent; country; city; maker is the decision tree for expertise. Then if the label date doesn't fit that, there's a problem, right?
Another point is that often a previous label will leave a shadow on the wood; unless the violin was scraped out or cleaned thoroughly, or the new label fits or covers the old space, you'll usually see a trace of the shadow.
Another thing is that fake labels often just look fake: xerox, laser, or inkjet printing all have their own appearance and time period. Different schools of making printed labels differently--letterpress, engraving. Different periods have specific type styles identified with them that people making copy labels often don't respect.
Do you have photos of the violin in question that you can post? _________________ new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ken, if you are really serious, you could order a dendrochronology test... that would likely tell the real story.... could be a hefty price, but then hefty for me could mean pocket change for you!
..Cheers, Mat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Michael Darnton wrote: |
.....the first thing to try to learn to guess; age; continent; country; city; maker is the decision tree for expertise. ......
|
Michael... Has anyone written a book on this subject... ie what are the main characteristics to look for in each of the above categories? Not that I would want to specialize in violin provenance, but to know enough to recognize potential would be nice.
Thanks, Mat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mat Roop Senior Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 911 Location: Wyoming Ontario
|
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi folks... Ken had some difficulty posting pics of his violin and asked me to post them for him... here they are..
Nice looking fiddle... love the texture of the top.... Cheers, Mat |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ollieken Super Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 281 Location: New Brunswick Canada
|
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:27 am Post subject: Fiddle |
|
|
Hello Michael Sorry for the late reply on pic Mat posted them for me
The label is Sebaftian Kloz In Mittenwald An 1901
there is a signature across the name looks like Sebaftian Kloz
& kind of a heart shape with B S & L in it
The date 19?1 when I looked with a led strip light .
I thought it was 1904 looks more like 1901
Thank you for any Info. on this fiddle Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Michael Darnton Moderator
Joined: 23 Mar 2007 Posts: 1286 Location: Chicago
|
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I can't really tell by looking at the photos, but the violin looks like it was made in 1901, but the model it's made on is a Klotz. Sebastian Klotz was working in the mid-1700s, so I'm going to guess that this is someone's copy of a Klotz, made in 1901.
That would be about the same as copies of Strads, except usually those don't have the real date they were made, and also your violin looks pretty nice, which most Strad copies aren't.
I might say something totally diffferent if I were holding the instrument.
At this point, I would assume that it's relatively nice, not junk, so don't let anyone who doesn't know what he's doing mess with it. At some point you might want to go to a real violin shop and get a real appraisal. _________________ new blog at my site! http://darntonviolins.com/blog
my work sites: http://darntonviolins.com and http://darntonhersh.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ollieken Super Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 281 Location: New Brunswick Canada
|
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: Michael |
|
|
Michael Thank you for the reply on the Kloz fiddle
I got the fiddle around 1990 It has a fast response
very easy to note .also it has a very small neck
any how it is a keeper & I will look after it til the Grim reaper
gets me & hope some one else takes care of it for the next 100 years.
Thank you & Mat for the help Ken |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|