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Tip-Plate Glue

 
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rs
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Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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Location: Holland, Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Tip-Plate Glue Reply with quote

Is there anyone who knows where I might find the hot bone and sinew glues know among bowmakers as colle d'nerf and colle d'os? I am wishing to use these in place of synthetics. Thank you.
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Randall Shenefelt
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whatwasithinking
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Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What might be the advantages of bone glue? It seems to have a reputation for being very hard, if not brittle.

Aren't most animal (hide) glues derived, to some degree, from sinews? Or is d'nerf some other formulation? I've been using fish glue for tips, lately. Long cure time, quite strong. Not bad at filling gaps.

Edit: Here's one source of bone glue. Most hide glues probably equate to what you're looking for in sinew glue.
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rs
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the response, whatwasithinking.

A traditional way to glue the tip-plate to the head often was a 50/50 mixture of bone glue and sinew glue. I want to follow this path instead of the use of synthetic glues although I have entertained fish glue even though I have never tried it. Your response encourages me to try the fish glue as well.

I have since posting the question located the bone glue through Highland and also see your link to Highland as well. Thank you for doing that for me. The sinew glue, according to archery bow makers, is easy to make from raw sinew. Right now, one of these appears to be the course I will take.
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Randall Shenefelt
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whatwasithinking
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please post your results!

I'd like to try making fish glue from dried fish bladders, but they're a little pricey.
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rs
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up making sinew glue from sinew I got from the pet store that is sold for dog treats. I got this information from archery bow makers who regularly use sinew glue for laminating their bows and that is how some of them make it.

To prepare the sinew glue, I simmered the sinew in a covered pot for about 60 hours and then removed the lid, strained the solution and cooked the broth down. When it cooled, it congealed. I then mixed fresh hide glue in the solution at a 50/50 ratio and heated it up to use it. Some archery bow makers use deer sinew as they say the deer sinew is even stronger than other animal sinew. I know some deer hunters and will ask them for some this fall and will try the bone glue in place of the hide glue when I do so.

The glue mixture is creamier when thick than hide glue alone and shrinks a bit more than hide glue when it dries. I used the hide glue instead of the bone glue because I have more experience with it than bone glue.

This sinew and hide glue appears to have worked well on the tip-plate (I used Tip Armor as this bow was for a client who travels internationally and wanted to avoid customs questions encountered if I had used fossil ivory), the pearl eyes, pearl slide and talon.
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Randall Shenefelt
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whatwasithinking
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randall,

Sounds good! Do you think this will work better than regular, granulated hide glue? Or is this still more of an experiment, at this point?

Bob
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rs
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sinew glue, according to Charles Espey, is a traditional bow maker mix with bone glue. I learned from a couple of luthiers that they did not see any difference between bone glue and hide glue when they had used it straight. I cannot say for sure as I do not remember ever using bone glue straight. I just went ahead and used the hide with the sinew glue because I knew what to expect from the hide glue.

The sinew glue mix was much easier to use when thick than hide glue when thick. It still was creamy and I found it easier to compress out of the joint when thick than hide glue that is a little thick. I intend to use this mixture on my next bows and will probably make some deer sinew glue and mix it with bone glue next time to be more traditional as stated above.

I am not sure why I wished to be traditional with Tip Armor, though. I guess, so that I can say that I was traditional, or more accurately, partly-traditional. I know the Tip Armor manufacturer recommends either hide or super glue. I think the above mixture for this application is superior than the hide alone.
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