Violin Forum/Message Board

[Pixelle]

Hello, I've yet to introduce myself, although this isn't just an introduction, My name is Faith, and I am brand new to violins, though I've wanted to learn for 6 years, I could never afford a violin or lessons, and about a month ago, I finally convinced my mom to buy me a violin, one of the 40 dollar ones on Ebay this was the Happy part

This is the requesting help part, Though I finally obtained a violin, I still can not afford lessons, so I want to *try* teaching myself, I looked at online lessons, I found and got familiar with my old book for learning violin basics, and then my violin came in the mail, and I relized I needed to tune it, I don't have a musical ear, so I was going to use my old recorder ( those wierd wind instruments kids tend to get in elementry school to learn) to help tune it (play a note on the recorder and try to match it on the violin)

I tried that (which im guessing now, might have been the wrong thing to do) and ended up breaking a string... yea... so I looked through ebay and found someone selling nylon strings at a decent price, and asked my mom, and she got them, when they arrived, I succesfully changed the strings, and let them relaxe a while, that evening I came back and tightened them a little, and a day later I came back and attempted to tune them again, and broke a string, luckily it was one I have a back up to, but I don't want to use it yet, because my mom will be angry if I break another without a replacement.... so I need help, I think I might know what I did wrong, at this point I'm guessing that you are supposed to pluck the string instead of bow it testing for note sound? or is that just considered faster?

If someone would kindly instruct me on how to tune my violin step by step or point out an article that tells how to tune one step by step, I would be most appreciative

and 2 more questions. 1). Is it bad to mix string types? and if so why?
2). What is the proper way to let your strings relaxe after changing the strings?

Thank you all very much for your patience with me

[Shirley]

Hi, Pixelle ~ What a gutsy kid you are! You really have my admiration!

First an admonition: Don't be discouraged by the sound that will most assuredly eminate from your $40 eBay violin. You can at least get an idea of what violin playing is all about.

Now to try to answer your questions:

STRING BREAKING:

I'm assuming that by "nylon" strings you mean nylon-type core? With metal windings? (Otherwise, a pure nylon string would be used on ukelele or a toy violin.) They should NOT break so quickly, if they are decent strings. Where did they break? At the top? Where they pass over the "nut" (that part of the fingerboard that is slightly raised before it leads into the scroll, where the string pegs are inserted)? If so, the nut might be sharp or ragged, and it should be smoothed out as best you can. A little carbon from a lead pencil, penciled into the grooves, helps the string slide over the nut.

Did it break at the bottom? Are you using a fine tuner - the little screw where the string attaches to the "tailpiece," that long strip of wood that has the holes in it for attaching the strings? It can be sharp, if your strings are the "loop end" kind, rather than the kind that have little metal ball on the end (these just fit through the hold by themselves.) You might check that out.

TUNING:

It would be best if you had access to an electric tuner - these show you when you are in tune, and whether you should go higher or lower. Or, you could use a piano - top string on your right (as you hold it under you chin) is E above the E above Middle C, the next string is A above middle C, the next string is D above middle C, and the lowest string is G below middle C. You probably already know this, but if you are trying to tune the violin too high, the strings will stretch and break. You can play on them right away, but the strings propably will not "settle in" for a few days, and you will have to retune them.

One other idea - do you have a music store in your vicinity? I'll bet that someone working there would be willing to tune your violin for you. Or a music teacher at your school?

And you can either pluck the string to tune it, or use your bow, which may give more accurate tunning. (It does for me, although in school I was taught to pluck.)

As for learning a bit more about playing the violin, have you been to

http://violinmasterclass.com/mc_menu.php

yet? There are some very good instructions on that site. Though, I am bound to tell you that even a few lessons would make the world of difference to you as a beginner - do you know anyone who plays? Even a stark beginner could help you to hold the violin correctly (if he/she has been taught properly).

I wish you the very, very best of luck, Pixelle - PLEASE get back to us to let us know how things are going? You will need an extraordinry amount of pluck to see this through. If you keep at it, perhaps your mom will see that you are serious, and make the money available for upgrades.

I hope to hear from you !!

Shirley

[Shirley]

Pixelle - I neglected to answer one of your queries - how to tune the violin, step by step.

I can't see that you are doing anything wrong. The end of the string is attached to the fine tuners, or through the holes on the endpiece, layed over the appropriate notch in the bridge (a little penciling in these notches help, too), and the top end goes over the notches in the "nut," into the holes in the pegs, which are then turned to tighten the string (adjust the string during this process, to make sure it is over the appropriate notches) to bring it up to pitch. (You do know which strings go into which pegs?)

ONE VERY IMPORTANT THING: replace strings one at a time, and never remove all the strings at once, or the bridge, which is held in place by the tensions on the strings, will fall down and will have to be repositioned. Likewise, the soundpost inside the instrument may fall down or move, and this must be replace by a luthier (violin maker/repair person).

No, it is not bad to mix strings - it is done all the time, to achieve a "sameness" across all the strings, or to get a specific sound that the player wants from one string.

If you have any other questions, as I might not be completely clear, please ask! I'm sure you will receive even more informed answers than I have been able to supply. Again, GOOD LUCK!

Shirley

[Shirley]

Pixelle ~ another thought: Are the strings you are using meant for your size violin? If you own a ful size violin (14-inch body), but are using strings ment for a smaller violin (3/4 or 1/2 for instance), the strings will be too short and will break. I won't hog the replies any more! Again, good luck! Shirley

[Gizmo]

http://www.violinonline.com/tuning.htm

Try it. You'll like it.
_________________
I NEVER PRACTICE. I'M NOT FAMOUS YET.

[ollieken]

Gizmo That is the best site i have seen Thanks Ken

[Mat Roop]

And if anyone is into violas.. here is the sister site...great sites!

http://www.violaonline.com/violinbasics.htm

Pixelle...About the breaking strings... the $40 ebay violins have some issues that can be serious but also fixable. If he string breaks at the peg, it is likely due to the fact that the hole drilled thru the peg for the string has not been trimmed...and so the edge that the string turns over as it leaves the hole is very sharp. You can trim it yourself easily, just trim off the sharp edge with a pointed very sharp knife so that the string has a slight radius to go over, as it leaves the peg. If it broke at the bridge, same deal... be sure the edges where the string goes over is slightly rounded so that the edge is not sharp. The other major issue with these violins is the bridge... the height of the e string over the fingerboard at the open end of the fingerboard should be about 3mm and the G string about 5mm. If it is higher, you need to take the bridge off and sand it down the appropriate amount... It will make the instrument sound better and be much easier to play.
To learn more about bridges, and check dimensions... check this...
http://www.violinbridges.co.uk/mea.php
Cheers and good luck!

[Pixelle]

three weeks later... (sorry about the delay)

Oh wow...After reading these replys, I was so encouraged...I've been to many forums (usually not about violins) and the people were usually really mean.and that was what I was expecting here. and it kind of made me scared to come back and see the replies. but thats not what I found, Thank you, you all have reinstilled hope

next, yes they are nylon core wrapped with metal sorry I should have been more specific, and yes they are the right size for my violin, I double checked (my violin is 4/4 and the strings were advertised at 4/4, so I'm hoping thats right)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Perlon-Violin-Strings-HUAYIN-4-4-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ160173494757QQihZ006QQcategoryZ38106QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
those are the strings we baught...
alright, the strings were breaking at the top usually between the nut and the pegs, they usually broke around where the colour coating ended, I did notice with the E string though, that it had crossed over another wire, and was seeming to get a little...*can't think of a good word* it was starting to break, but it wasnt breaking.... just a little bent out of shape?

thank you Mat Roop for the information on trimming the little hole in the peg, I'll try that next, and I thought that E was not in the right place but it seemed too low, not too high O.o, one of the reasons I was pulling it tighter was because it kept hitting the fingerboard when I used the bow on it o.O so I'm guessing if it's too low, I should start looking for a new one?




Second addressed question (thank you all )
Tuning, the piano Idea is good (mom has a keyboard in a box in her room, maybe that will work) and the site, seems good and I'll give it a shot

Thank you all so very much, helping so well, and making me feel so welcome and thank you for bearing through my long winded posts thank you all so so much

[Shirley]

Hi Pixelle! We are so glad you logged in again, and told us how things are going so far! Please do see what can be done with your violin, and how you are progressing - please?

It was so good to hear from you! Come again! Shirley

PS It does appear that you need a different (higher) bridge, or that the bridge is not placed correctly.

[Pixelle]

Back with an update, and Surprise surprise, another question

Update:
ok, I (think I) succesfully tuned the violin which means that for now, the strings breaking problem is gone thank you for the help with that

Question: I know you are supposed to theroughly wash your hands before even picking up you violin, but sometimes I forget, and start to practice without washing my hands, and I was wondering if there was a gentle way of removing the oils that my hands leave on the violin?

Endless Ramble:
and since the Violin is Tuned, I was able to start practicing, which was hard at first, because...I'm not good with beats, and counting with my foot was pretty tricky, but its getting easier just more practice so far im working with the D and A strings, (they are both in treble clef right? if so thats probably why they are first I'm following my book, Essential elements 2000 for strings) so far I know that first finger placed on the d string makes it sound like E, second finger makes it sound like F#, and third finger makes it sound like...*forgets and goes to look it up* G anyway, yall prolly knew that
I am also getting better at switching from D to A string without too much of a pause, or lifting the bow and without bowing the E with the A when I go to bow the A

Conclusion:
YAY step by step I will get through, and I thank you all for your helping hands when I have needed them so much thank you

[Shirley]

Pixel - Welcome once again! You are doing great! You may not appreciate it, but bowing one string without touching the other is a great achievement! Keep at it!

As for cleaning the gook off your violin - just a clean rag will do for the body. As for the strings on the fingerboard, one suggestion is to use a little Rosinol ligher fluid (Naphtha) on a soft rag and wipe the strings where there is oil, and also this is a good cleaner for getting the rosin off your strings which has been left by the bow.

There will be other suggestions, this is just what my luthier uses (to clean the body, also, but that is best left for later). I find it works wonderfully, and since Rosinol does not injure the finish as alcohol will is not handled very carefully, and is readily available, I find it a good choice.

ALSO, IF YOU HAVE A DRY MICROFIBRE CLOTH, THAT WORKS WONDERFULLY, TOO!

Keep in touch! Shirley

[Sweep]

[Pixelle]

IM BACK sick of me yet?

Welcome Sweep I'm glad you posted, and I think I will check out Michela Petrie pretty soon, as I have no clue who that is lol

Ramble:
for that first week of absence ... I didn't practice but I got my room clean, so I feel more compelled to practice more frequently
I had just gotten back to practicing when I realized the E was too low to bow, and that the D (the one on the A string) when played also pushed the string to low to bow for a while I thought I needed a new bridge, but then realized it was moved too far over on the bow, so I moved it a bit, and it plays well now

Request/Question: ok the tuning website was really helpful, but I later ran into a problem, I can't keep my fingers in the right places, for like the E, F, F#, G, and all the other notes on the other strings. I looked it up, and most people with a simular problem, they used finger tape (or scrapbooking tape...) but it also veries as to where to put the tape, usually because peoples fingers are different sizes... so they make different notes right? so is there one of those sites I can compare to the notes on my violin to find out where I need to put the tape. and would a tuner help with this process?

Thank you for your guy's continued patience with me

[Shirley]

Hi again, Pixelle!

First, congratulations on getting your room clean! Now, wanna pop over here to my house and get started on our computer room/office? Phew - what a mess!

Second, yes, many beginners find tapes on the fingerboard yo be helpful at first. The only way to find where to put the tape on your instrument, with you playing it, is, in the absense of a teacher who could help you, is to use a tuner if you do not trust your ear. Make the sound, and if it is correct, put a tape across the fingerboard at that point. (All first fingers, etc., should fall at the same point on the fingerboard.) Maybe someone could help you with the actual taping? It gives confidence when playing, but the drawback is that you can become dependent on the tapes, sort of like Dumbo and his feather! Try to take off the tapes as soon as you feel you can.

And, Hi, Sweep, you sneaky lurker, you! Feel free to hop in again - your post was interesting!

Good luck to both of you. Shirley

[Sweep]