Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index Violin Forum/Message Board
Provided by Violin Vision
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

how to create a growly violin

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: how to create a growly violin Reply with quote

Working on a family heirloom, cheaper than cheap, violin. The desire is for a deeper, more growly, tone.
What specific things can I do to move the violin towards that effect?
The top is off right now, and I will be installing a new bass bar. back thickness at the center area is way thin.... I do not plan on a patch to build it up.... as per previous advice.
Thanks for your thoughts... Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the top arching generalities and graduation scheme?

Have you heard this fiddle before you took it apart and was the set up decent and adjusted any?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Don...
The top arching is quite flat and still a bit thick.. I left it at about 3.5mm overall and 3.8 at the post area.
The back upper bout area is about 3.7 and lower bouts 3.8 all of which drops to 2.8 at the center.

I had not heard the fiddle before.
Thanks for your advice.... Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The graduations do seem a bit unusual. If I worked on things like that regularly then I might be able to suggest something but that one is breaking the rules for graduations so other rules might not apply. In that case I would leave it alone and see what I have when it is set up and playing.
It might sound just fine as it is or maybe some tinkering with the setup might give you what you are looking for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Don... I agree, I think leaving the back as is what I'll do. I will be putting in a new bass bar, and wonder if I should leave it thinner vs thicker vs taller vs lower.... inclined to go thinner& taller??
Thanks... Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
DonLeister
Moderator


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 383
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it has that low arch, even though it is thick. A high bar sounds like a good idea, I would think in the center mostly, it seems like it doesn't need support at the ends with the thick graduations, just speculating.
Any label in that thing?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a label ... the usual saxony variety... Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis faciebat Anno 17
Thanks for your advice Don... Cheers, Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chet Bishop
Super Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree: high, fairly thin bar.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonLeister wrote:
.....Any label in that thing?

Hi Don... I get a chuckle reading your post... you are so right referring to the violin ... it really is a "thing"!

Chet... Thanks for your confirmation of what to do with the bar.
Cheers, Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chet Bishop
Super Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record, I think the back grads are a mess...as in, backwards, sorta. But it will be an interesting experiment, I guess.

Years ago, a work-acquaintance needed a viola for his son. He didn't have much money, and I had a real clunker of an imported viola-shaped-object. It was so incredibly thick that I was able to completely re-arch and regraduate it to a much better shape and thickness, both front and back. I also thinned the ribs, and reworked the scroll a little, so that it "looked" a little more "handmade."

It turned out to be a very respectable viola, and he played it through high-school. But my preference is to choose a thickness for the center area of the back, and make the upper and lower bouts as close to half that thickness as I dare (learned from Mr. Darnton.) But in your case, unless you want to beef up that middle, you can't follow that pattern. Sorry...I'm outta ideas. Sad
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chet Bishop wrote:
..Sorry...I'm outta ideas. Sad

Well, I do have an idea, but I'm not about to go to that extent of work.... raise the ribs:)
Cheers, Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chet Bishop
Super Member


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 678
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Were the ribs abnormally low?

I make my small viola ribs about 34 or 35 mm tall, but that is a different situation. On a violin, I pretty much stay with the norms.

Arching is the very most important thing (possibly after wood choice), and then graduation, set-up, etc.

If it is that thick, I would be tempted to think about re-arching, to try to accomplish the proper curves for the sound you want. But that thin center is problematic, for sure.

You've been handed a lemon, but maybe you are just the guy to make lemonade! I'm looking forward to seeing how you address the problems.
_________________
Chet Bishop
https://bluefiddles.com
https://fivestringfiddles.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mat Roop
Senior Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 911
Location: Wyoming Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good advice everyone... brother in law received the violin back day before Christmas...
I had carved the top down to 2.7mm and about 3.0 at the post. Left back as is, installed linings ( there were none), trimmed down the end and corner blocks ( they were still rough and oversized), installed new bass bar... thinner and taller by about 1mm at the center, installed new carved fingerboard.
He called me to say he was most pleased with the sound and response... said he could not put it down:) When they say that I know it sounds good! To my surprise he did say that the growliness was still there similar to before ( which is what he wanted)... So I guess as someone suggested.... the growliness is likely attributed to the low arching.

Thanks again for all your advice... & Happy New Year! ... Cheers, Mat
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Violin Forum/Message Board Forum Index -> Violin Making and Restoration Forum All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group