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Strad knock off.... what to do

 
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LuthierSomeday
Junior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Strad knock off.... what to do Reply with quote

Hey All,

New member here, decent wood-worker. I just picked up an old (who knows how old) Stradivarius knock off at a salvation army. It has issues. No bridge, no soundpost, the top and back are separating in a few places, and the neck needs to be reset.

not sure what to do. I dont know if it is valuable at all and I'd like to try to restore it myself. Do any strad-knock-offs have any kind of value? I read through a forum on re-setting the neck and I think I could do it myself, but what about the top and back? If its separating do I need to take them off and re-glue them? can the neck be reset with the fingerboard on it? I'll try to post some pics soon. Cosmetically its got alot of scratches and dirty, but i dont mind that so much.

lots of questions, looking for guidance.

thanks so much

M
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Dave Chandler
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Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 691
Location: Mt Mitchell in North Carolina

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Old Strad knock-off Reply with quote

Being a novice (only made 4 instruments, but have taken tops off and reinstalled them a few times), thought I'd wait a couple days before jumping in. Sounds like some good experience to me, find out if you have a knack for working with small details. Probably best to completely disassemble (at least remove the top where most of the damage is), make your repairs, and reassemble.

I'm guessing you don't want to buy a lot of specialty tools for this project. So, disassembled, you might not need to purchase a lot of specialty clamps etc to fix those cracks in the plates.

You may be able to improvise on a lot of tools. Still, you'll need to buy some spool clamps (or make them) to put it all back together.

I think you can download free a booklet on assembling a violin from stewart-mcdonald.

I bought a stainless steel artist pallet knife with a blade about 4" long and about 1" wide, and comes to a narrow rounded point (looks a bit like a butter knife), sharpened the point just a bit, only so I can get it started between the ribs and the plate. Its a very thin blade, but not sharp on the edges, so it literally pries the top up without trying to cut its way through. You might round the edges a little with some fine sand paper. It works great for reapplying gue when putting the plates back on the ribs.

I'd probably leave the finish alone if possible, and protect the finish as you work making sure you have a nice surface to work from.

I bought a piece of material at the hardware store that is used to keep rugs from slipping on wood floors, makes a nice surface on my workbench, keeps me from scratching finish, and also keeps my work from slipping and moving.

Well there it is, keeping in mind I'm just a novice myself, with not enough to do, looking forward to see what some of the experienced makers have to say.

On an old violin, what do some of you restorers use to seal a deteriorated finish?
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Jack H.
Super Member


Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure you can re-glue the seams back in place. hot hyde glue, small butter knife with a thin blade closing clamps with some cork or thick surgical rubber stuff facing the clamping surface.
Bridge and sound post are a bit harder! and resetting the neck takes real prescision!
You might need a knfe or two for the bridge and sound post, and an inexpensive sound post setter ( or make your own, not too hard).
Depending on the condition of the neck, you might need a small bull nose plane ( or a regular stanley if you want to remove the fingerboard..)

a small ruler and tape measure in mm, a caliper in the same calibration ( unless you like to do metric conversions.)and a small straight edge of impecable quality.

the measurements you probably have read up on are very important! mind them, and get the neck sole, heel and mortice surface areas FLAT!
Muchas importante!
Your tools should be honed to razor sharpnes, frequently.
post me a link to the discussion about neck resetting, I want to go over the information before you let loose on the instrument.
The neck can be set with the fingerboard on, check to see if the fingerboard runs even with the neck by lining up 2 straight edges along the sides and seeing where they contact the scroll. if it is symetrical, then the fingerboard will help you sight the propper angle between the ff holes, assuming that they are actually centers on the instrument.

The value really depends on a lot of factors, do not do it for the money though, have some fun learning! I have seen quite a few strad factory instruments and I have sold them for amounts varrying from $250 to $3,500 all depending on the sound, condition, quality and amount of work done and country of origin.


Good luck, ask any questions, and keep us posted!
post some links to pictures of the before during and after!


Hi Dave,
Good idea on the rubber padding,
I use a good french polish to seal a deteriorated finish.
Recently sold a rosin varnish red and yellow ( fake antique, stained wood, clearish varnish, ) the varnish was horrible really in bad shape ( which is one reason I am not too fond of rosin varnishes)but a nice french polish , decent bridge and sound post gave a customer a very nice sweet sounding violin!
Of course on a better violin you would have to do a bit more to restore the finish if it was really deteriorated!cleaning th ewood, matching the ground , layers of varnish and a bit of colour...
Jack H.
Israel
pardon all the typos, it is 1:14 in the AM and me is going to bed.
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LuthierSomeday
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: top is off Reply with quote

So the top is off. I followed the advice posted here and got ahold of "Violin Making, as it was, as it is". Few issues. The top was really hard to get off at the end block (possibly due to a bad repair as there were a few spots with a lot more glue than others). Anyways, I left some large splinters of the belly on the end block. (guess thats inevitible for the first time). Should I cut the splinters off and re-glue them to the top? Or just leave it and line it up for re-gluing?

Also, how should I go about clamping the neck for re-setting if I'm going to leave the fingerboard?

Matt
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LuthierSomeday
Junior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: top is off Reply with quote

So the top is off. I followed the advice posted here and got ahold of "Violin Making, as it was, as it is". Few issues. The top was really hard to get off at the end block (possibly due to a bad repair as there were a few spots with a lot more glue than others). Anyways, I left some large splinters of the belly on the end block. (guess thats inevitible for the first time). Should I cut the splinters off and re-glue them to the top? Or just leave it and line it up for re-gluing?

Also, how should I go about clamping the neck for re-setting if I'm going to leave the fingerboard?

Matt
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LuthierSomeday
Junior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: top is off Reply with quote

So the top is off. I followed the advice posted here and got ahold of "Violin Making, as it was, as it is". Few issues. The top was really hard to get off at the end block (possibly due to a bad repair as there were a few spots with a lot more glue than others). Anyways, I left some large splinters of the belly on the end block. (guess thats inevitible for the first time). Should I cut the splinters off and re-glue them to the top? Or just leave it and line it up for re-gluing?

Also, how should I go about clamping the neck for re-setting if I'm going to leave the fingerboard?

Matt
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FiddleDoug
Member


Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:15 pm    Post subject: Strad knock off Reply with quote

Those old Strad copies (German or other) can turn out pretty nice sometimes. Read everything you can get your hands on for tips and techniques. My advise would be to go a bit slowly on putting things back together. Especially the neck reset. Make sure the angles and fingerboard projection are correct before gluing back together.
The large splinters of the top should be soaked off and glued back onto the top with Tightbond (one of the few instances where glue other than hide glue may be used). You can check my website for a picture of one possible way of clamping the neck while gluing. Good luck and have fun.
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Doug Wall

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FiddleDoug
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Strad knock off Reply with quote

Those old Strad copies (German or other) can turn out pretty nice sometimes. Read everything you can get your hands on for tips and techniques. My advise would be to go a bit slowly on putting things back together. Especially the neck reset. Make sure the angles and fingerboard projection are correct before gluing back together.
The large splinters of the top should be soaked off and glued back onto the top with Tightbond (one of the few instances where glue other than hide glue may be used). You can check my website for a picture of one possible way of clamping the neck while gluing. Good luck and have fun.
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Doug Wall

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FiddleDoug
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Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Strad knock off Reply with quote

Those old Strad copies (German or other) can turn out pretty nice sometimes. Read everything you can get your hands on for tips and techniques. My advise would be to go a bit slowly on putting things back together. Especially the neck reset. Make sure the angles and fingerboard projection are correct before gluing back together.
The large splinters of the top should be soaked off and glued back onto the top with Tightbond (one of the few instances where glue other than hide glue may be used). You can check my website for a picture of one possible way of clamping the neck while gluing. Good luck and have fun.
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Doug Wall

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LuthierSomeday
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: belly splinters Reply with quote

Do you mean soak the splinters (on the end block) with water? How do I go about that. I dont want to damage anything.

Matt
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FiddleDoug
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Posts: 227
Location: Hilton, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Soaking splinters Reply with quote

Just put a little piece of wet paper towel right on the splinter. Warm it a little under a desk lamp. The old hide glue should soften and allow you to remove the splinter. Sometimes you may have to re-wet the towel to give it enough time to soften things up.
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Jack H.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: top is off Reply with quote

LuthierSomeday wrote:


Also, how should I go about clamping the neck for re-setting if I'm going to leave the fingerboard?

Matt


Use large enough clamps with cork to protect the finish. one side on the button and one side on the FB.
The Fingerboard projection should be 27 mm at the bridge. check for straightness in all 3 planes.
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LuthierSomeday
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: neck reset Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip on soaking those splinters. Worked great.

As far as the neck, i'm not sure what to do. It has separated from the button, but still joined to the sides. I can't get it to sit flat on the button or the block to fith tight to the back. It keeps wanting to tilt back at a larger angle so there is a few mm of dead space under the block. Should I shim it?

Matt
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