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Violin Top Crack(s)

 
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fordraiders
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Kentucky-Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Violin Top Crack(s) Reply with quote

I have an old violin. 2 Top Cracks. From end piece to f hole(left). The cracks are not totally sealed when pressing in from the sides. Enough to where you can see through. Should I just clamp and hide glue the seal. Or could I use wood filler then hide glue and cleats..Or any suggestions..?

I have cleared glue from the first crack(running from middle of violin to about 1/2 to left . The crack is about4 inches long.
The second crack is about 1 inch further to the left. so if I take the glue from the second crack the piece in the middle will fall out..

Is it best just to repair both at the same time.
Similiar to Jeffrey Holmes pic. But more extreme.
http://www.violins.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=97&highlight=hide+glue&sid=a77ca079cf97d4581750c187dff9d4b1


Thanks
David Powell
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Jeffrey Holmes
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Ann Arbor

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh... I hope it's not really more extreme than the violin I posted. There are about 12 cracks in the top of that one.

To try and answer your question: The best way to approach multiple cracks depends on the case... If the cracks are stubborn to close, you are usually better off attending to one at a time, but doing so may require that a neighboring crack is "tack" glued... or that temporary cleats are installed to stabilize it.

Stay away from wood filler in the bond... it does not make for a good joint... and even used cosmetically, it's tough to retouch properly.

Yes, I use reinforcement cleats on tough cracks.

Good luck!
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Jeffrey

http://holmesviolins.com
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fordraiders
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Kentucky-Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Its worse. At least a 1/16 inch seperation. I think gut feeling it makes sense to repair each as I go along.
The cleats ; are they made of maple or spruce ?

Thanks for replying...so very much...
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Mountan Music and tradtional string band music are my main interests. Keeping alive the old traditions. Getting into repair work on old violins. Love Tommy Jarrell;Roscoe Holcomb; Rayna Gellert; Heidi Clare, Owen "Snake" Chapman, Rhys Davies
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Jeffrey Holmes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spruce; grain running perpendicular to the top... or in some applications (diamond shape cleats), near 45%.
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Jeffrey

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FiddleDoug
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Cracks Reply with quote

You are taking the front off the instrument for this repair, aren't you?
If the front (table/top) is still on the instrument, it's likely that the front has shrunken enough to have the ribs pull it apart. With the front off, you should be able to close the crack. When clamping the crack closed, be careful not to mess up the arching.
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Doug Wall

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Jeffrey Holmes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Cracks Reply with quote

FiddleDoug wrote:
You are taking the front off the instrument for this repair, aren't you?
If the front (table/top) is still on the instrument, it's likely that the front has shrunken enough to have the ribs pull it apart. With the front off, you should be able to close the crack. When clamping the crack closed, be careful not to mess up the arching.


Man... Good question, Doug. I didn't even think to ask. I just assumed he had.

Maintaining the integrity of the arching is another subject entirely... Several techniques are effective (plaster casting, towers/wedges/clamps, jigs, zipper style cleats).

When use is possible, I've found the most accurate/effective method is to use towers/wedges/clamps. Unlike gluing in a cast, this method requires no "sandwiching" pressure on the plates to keep the crack and arching in line, so the shrinkage of the wood/glue while it dries under pressure is not an issue. With what sounds like a 1 mm gap in the center of the cracks that's being described, sounds like it this procedure will be advisable.
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fordraiders
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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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Location: Kentucky-Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

(You are taking the front off the instrument for this repair, aren't you? )

Yes the plate is off...

I'am not taking the bottom plate off. Intact and no gaps.

I have to get a whole new neck. Someone had a 3/4 neck on this 4/4 violin.


I had additional cleaning and repairing to do. The top plate was already loose in spots. to numerious to not kep off and just do additional repairing.

Quite fun and peaceful work.

Cleats are my next adventure...

Thanks
for all the replies...!
David
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Mountan Music and tradtional string band music are my main interests. Keeping alive the old traditions. Getting into repair work on old violins. Love Tommy Jarrell;Roscoe Holcomb; Rayna Gellert; Heidi Clare, Owen "Snake" Chapman, Rhys Davies
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