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new cello settling in changes

 
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actonern
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: new cello settling in changes Reply with quote

As a general tendency, does the initial string clearance (above the fingerboard) on new cellos tend to increase or decrease during the initial break-in period?

I'm cutting a new bridge and if the clearance tends to get smaller I'd leave a generous amount at first, planning on subsequent fine- tuning.

Thanks.
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Jack H.
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 346
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience says that the string height increases after a while on NEW instruments.
Mostly from the neck settling, many instruemnts are made with wood that has not fully dried and the string pressure tends to warp the neck a bit.
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mapleleaf_gal
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: tucson, az

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it usually increases on factor is due to the top plate sometimes "sagging" down a bit in the center. depending upon what kind of an arch you do could determine the amount of space that it will increase.
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actonern
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mapleleaf: Would a sagging belly not tend to reduce the string clearance?

My reason for the post was that I know a newly made instrument when brought up to tension will tend to bend the neck forward to some extent. That would have the effect of increasing string clearance. On the other hand, the belly tends to sink down, which has the opposite effect.

That's why I was wondering what the net result is on string clearance.

Best regards
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Jeffrey Holmes
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 90
Location: Ann Arbor

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... while it may be that some (especially mass produced) instruments may be made of fresh wood and therefore suffer some noticeable deformation to the neck, the change in this area on better instruments is usually rather minimal. There can also be some minor change in the "root", or heal of the neck as well. Again, I'm not sure it's all that significant in well made instruments. Even so, some makers take measures to minimize this problem (dowels, carbon fiber inserts, etc.)

It's also not unheard of that a belly will sink in the area of the bridge, especially on the bassbar side (and if the top is on the thin side, and the bar strong, it will end to pull that whole side downwards)... but I don't think this is really the main cause of the projection shift in well made new 'celli either.

What I do often observe is some distortion to the top, that is probably most noticeable as a slight rise (bulging) in the arching in the areas under the fingerboard & tailpiece... If the bridge area is kept relatively stable by counter-pressure of the bridge/post, a rise in the upper and lower nodes of the arching will tend to effectively shorten the top (due to the compression from the neck and tail end under full string tension). A small change in top length can translate to a pretty significant drop in projection.

This doesn't even take into consideration what may be happening with the back (where the pressures are reversed... in that it's being stretched by the string tension and pushed outward in the post area).

The above mentioned distortion is even more obvious on many old violins, violas & 'celli.

Anyway, this has just turned out to be a long winded preparation before answering the original posters question... In an attempt to answer, I'd say the amount that a new 'cellos neck "settles" really depends on the arch more than anything... but may also depend on the relative humidity at the time the neck is set in and/or tension is given to the strings. 2 or more mm is not unusual to see (in other words, a bridge cut at the correct height may end up being a couple mm "high" in the end).
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Last edited by Jeffrey Holmes on Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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actonern
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffrey:

Thank you for your reply. I'm always impressed by how freely many of our experienced members share information. I remember starting instrument making as a hobby in the mid '80s... there was nothing like this community at the time... there was Heron Allen, Harry Wake, and little else. No internet, no forums, no easy access to advice, short of enrolling in a violin makin school...

This is wonderful!

Best regards
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mapleleaf_gal
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
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Location: tucson, az

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

actonern wrote:
Mapleleaf: Would a sagging belly not tend to reduce the string clearance?

My reason for the post was that I know a newly made instrument when brought up to tension will tend to bend the neck forward to some extent. That would have the effect of increasing string clearance. On the other hand, the belly tends to sink down, which has the opposite effect.

That's why I was wondering what the net result is on string clearance.

Best regards


OOPS!! yeah, i accidently got that backwards.
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