Violin Forum/Message Board

[spystyle]

Hello from Maine,

I have some questions about the $45 USD (shipped) violins on eBay.







It puzzles me, so I try to figure it out. Having worked in manufacturing before I am from the school of thought that "CNC cut" is perfect and "hand made" is not. But further reading has lead me to believe that a "hand made" violin is better because the violin luthier "hand tunes" each piece - making it thicker in some areas and thinner in others according to the sound it produces - something a machine can not do.

That really fascinates me. I guess that's the difference between making wooden furniture and making a wooden violin.

So these eBay violins are referred to as "VSO (violin shaped objects)" and they produce a "screachy" sound, see this expert player with a cheap violin, it sounds well executed but terribly "screachy" :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFlBaH7uflw

Oh it's sad that such a talented player has such a poor violin. So I wonder why does it sound so bad? Well I guess a $45 USD violin must have $2 strings, among other problems.

I wonder, what if you "upgrade" a $45 violin with some $30 strings, could that alone help make it playable?

This page has a tutorial that shows how to convert a VSO into a playable instrument:

http://hmi.homewood.net/vso/

Have you guys had any luck with VSO's ?

Cheers,
Craig

[spystyle]

Hey, on the convert a VSO page he uses a template, I found printable templates here:

http://vitaliimport.net/cart/images/templateb.bmp

I suppose a person could print the template onto sticker paper, and make his own templates from wood.

Cheers,
Craig

[spystyle]

Hmmm, no replies.. I guess no one has bought a "VSO" and brought it up to specs?

It interested me, so I bought a pink violin for my daughter for $43 shipped.



The funny this is - I bought it while looking for a violin case - the case, empty, was $49. The case with a violin in it was $43! Is that funny or what?

Also, what little girl wouldn't get a kick out of a pink violin?

I know it will arrive with $1 strings, so I ordered "Red label" strings which I was told is fine for 1st and 2nd year students. They could be referred to as $12 strings.

I will look into getting the correct tools and templates to make the pink violin a playable instrument.

Cheers,
Craig

[Chris E.]

[FiddleDoug]

What makes you think that the player in the Youtube clip is playing a VSO? I don't think that Youtube is noted for audio or video quality. It was probably recorded on an inexpensive camcorder with a cheap mike. But back to the VSO question. Some of the things that you might find on a VSO:
Dyed wood fittings.
Poorly shaped fingerboard
Poorly fitted cheap pegs
Low quality wood in the instrument.
Very poor bridge and set-up (I had to rework one that had about 10 mm of string clearance at the end of the FB.)
Cheap strings
Bad bow
All that said, yes, most can be made to sound OK, but not great, and may require a considerable amount of work to get them there.
Also, the low quality wood may not be seasoned properly, and may warp, crack, or split at some point in the future.
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Jack H.]

Hi Craig,
I have purchased a few VSos, not on Ebay but from distributors, because when I re-started the business here I had a demand for them, but I soon realized that the work I put into them was not going to come back to me in the prices I can charge for them, I stopped buying and reffer th ecustomers that want a $100 violin to go elsewhere after explaining all the problems that they will find with them.
I have had a few smart customers that were given VSOs as presents when significant others or family found out they wanted to play the violin and they just went to a music store( not a violin specialty shop mind you, you do get MUCH better service at a violin speacialty shop than at a music store)and purchased said violin shaped object of their loved one's desire.
They had the money to pay fro the upgrades and wanted to use the given violin so a complete overhaul was in order.
My experience tells me that these are the things that need to be done to a VSO to get it to sound not bad borderline good.

Pegs, most VSos come with soft wood and ill fitting pegs. New pegs are a must.
Done well ( and I mean the kind of good work that you will be giving the violin to your grandkids to play with the same pegs...)
a good pegjob will be $100 +/-. Yeah, I know, pegs from India are $4 a set, but they give poor results most of the time, just too much endgrain showing up in places and directions that hinder the job and make for poor results. Good quality ebony pegs are still inexpensive, but you pay for the knowlege and skill of a true craftsman to do the job right.
he/she went to school for 4 years and then went off to be worker for many years in a shop learning and practicing before striking out on his own. Heck any one can lay bricks, but a journeyman or master can do it just so much better and faster and he gets paid accordingly.
Afetr the pegs come the nut and FB. most times these too are made with soft, inferior and/or impropper woods that will cause many problems in the coming year. strings will dig into the nut and begin to buzz on the improperly shaped FB. The string spacing is haphazard at best and really needs to be correct for ease of playing. The fb itself , if being of soft wod will allow the strings themselves to cause grooves in the fb, making more hash buzzing tones. it also needs to have the propper curve left to right and a certain amount of flatness to concavity from top to bottom with no bumps even when measured with a 1 1/2 inch $30 straight edge. Being made from ebony would also help a LOT!
Nut and fingerboard will be at least $75, more to replace the fb.
Next come bridge and sound post.
The provided bridge may be of maple but it is very soft maple and very few grainlines. it is not cut with a good curve that allows you to play on one string at a time adn most likely it is too high or too low. This needs to be replaced with a good quality bridge from Aubert, Despieu or a third maker who I forgot the name of.
the bridge needs to be thinned to certain dimensions in various places, have the curve of the propper dimensions have the feet fit perfectly at the right height and the string groves filed into the proper location at the correct distances from each other. it should also be pleasant looking to the eye so we spend another 20 or so minutes whittling this and that to give it nicer curves. The sound post needs to fit the top and bottom curves perfectly at the right place with the right amount of tension, it needs to be of spruce 6mm diameter with straight grainlines.
bridge and soundpost.. at least $100. takes a bit of time.
afeter bridge adn soundpost you need a good set of Dominants at least.
Evas would bee too much.
Strings are another $30 at least.
Lastly the neck of the violin might not be at the right angle, creating an improper bridge height and and improper angle of the strings as they cross the bridge, resulting in either not enough or too much tension, both are detrimental to the tone of the violin. a NY neck reset takes care of that.
neck work, $100.
SO the bill comes in around $400 plus minus depending on where you go and we have not even talked about what a half decent bow can do for you! These improvements (providing that the bassbar is in the right place at least and not too carved down) will yield fantastic results in improved tone, projection playability and encreased fahrvergnügen. All this results in a much greater probability that you wll continue to see how much you improve and continue playing.
You are buying all this when you go to a violin specialty shop and buy a $600-$1000 violin starter set with case and bow. the instrument is also something a bit nicer than something made in China on a CNC machine, although they do also make some realy good student adnd top end stuff, but they are also a lot more expensive than $45.

Just my 2 sheckels worth.
Jack

pardon all the typos, I need to get the boy to soccer practice. not much time to proof.

[spystyle]

[Jack H.]

[Jack H.]

[spystyle]

OK, I'll buy the dominants. I keep hearing that I should

I had "Red label strings" because the person who sold me my daughter's "school violin" said that is all we will need for our first two years.

But I'm sure they are at least better than a $3 set of "Alice strings".

I found another VSO video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlvG20sf1vs

It's so scratchy, it hurts my ears (listen to minute 2:15).

But it's perfectly executed.

Cheers,
Craig

[spystyle]

Are "Thomastik Vision" as good as "Thomastik Dominant" ?

Thank you,
Craig

[FiddleDoug]

I went back to the Youtube link. When I had originally viewed it, I didn't scroll down to see the comments, and missed the "Chinese factory violin" comment. It would be interesting to see what the same $75 violin would sell for over here.
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[spystyle]

I think they were referring to it as a "$75 USD violin", I don't think they actually paid that much. It is probably from the same factory as the "$45 eBay violins".

Cheers,
Craig

[Jack Rushing]

Hi spystyle, Yes, it's bad, but not toooo bad. with good strings, a new
properly carved bridge and setup, it would sound much better. The girl
obviously has talent, to have been able to get the sound that she did, out of it.

[spystyle]

Yeah, she totally rocks!