Violin Forum/Message Board

[Keln]

Hello to you all. I have just purchased my first violin, a very cheap instrument on ebay (about $54 USD). I've never played a violin before, but I've always wanted to and I did not want to commit much money to the endeavor until I was sure it was something I'd enjoy. Which means I will probably have this thing for a year or so until I a familiar with violins, then look for a "real" one.

But until then, I must work with what I have. When I originally tried to tune the violin, the strings ended up popping out of the tail piece which had popped off because one of the fittings that screws onto the strap that holds it into place on the end button had stripped off.

So a few drops of super glue later (none of it on the violin itself) I got the tail piece to stay. In fact, I don't think I could adjust that strap ever again. So I went to set the bridge up again (which had collapsed after the first time because of the strings popping out) and noticed two things right away. First, that when I tighten the strings to tune it, the bridge leans ever more forward to the point where it is no longer flush with the violin surface when I get the violin in tune on all strings. Second, that there are no grooves or notches on the bridge for the strings to fit in to. Now, honestly, I don't want to spend $30 to have a professional set up a $1 piece of wood on a $50 instrument. I have the utmost respect for luthiers and their craft, but I just don't think this instrument is worthy of such pricey attention of you gather my meaning. So is there a simple way to set it? Can I notch grooves in with a knife? The strings actually seem to evenly rest just right every time I tune it (compared to pictures of other violins), so do I even need to put grooves on it? And with the leaning bridge problem, do I just lean it back the other way before I tighten the strings to tune it?

I have been playing it and testing finger placement and all of that, and the sound seems good. I had to mess around with the pegs to get them to stay, but seems that the strings were just wound unevenly. Once I straightened that out, I can push the pegs into the holes on the other side of the peg box and they'll stay. This thing is loud by the way. Lots of sound. Wife says that's a bad thing, but she'll come around when I can actually play music on it I think.

[Elkwoman46]

Hi Keln,
Okay, just recently I got these links, here is one, I am sure you can find all of his quite easily. I thought the info was very helpful. And there is another young lady who had gone to three first classes and shared the info on YouTube as well. So I am sure there is a bunch of stuff that could help you.
Another thing, about the notches. I saw a tool on eBay that makes those notches and it is not a knife, but a file. Just so you know. I think the notch should not be very deep. I would read up on it because I think the string should sit on top to a degree above the wood bridge and not be sunk inside, so we are talking about a small notch. I forget what I read (it has been a while), but it is like the string is up above the wood bridge either 25 or 75 percent. You don't want the string stuck or buried in the notch.
Here is a link that should bring you to a number of his YouTube videos...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpCfQySYuAo&feature=related

Also, congratulations for getting a violin! Ain't it awesome?
You will find after you start playing and give it time, you'll be glad that you did not buy something expensive...because of the internet, there are so many, many to choose from, and you will need a little time to figure out what is what you want and what you don't want.

I highly recommend that you watch that guys videos about string installation and all that; you benefit.

By the way, did you buy a new one or a used violin?

And also by the way, there is a peg compound or drops that should help to keep them in place if you have peg slipping troubles.

And well, I could really ramble, but first things first...hope this helps.
God bless you in Jesus' Name.

[Shirley]

Hey - that's a pretty good answer from a "newbie," Elkwoman! You really have been learning and are willing to share.

Kein, regarding the bridge - yes, just set it up straight again, as straight as you can, centered more or less on the cross notches on the F holes. Do be sure that you have it facing the right way - The steeper side is on the E-string side; usually the brand or signature is facing the scroll.

With the strings sort of tight, grab the top of the bridge in two places with a finger and thumb of both hands, and maybe hold it steady if you can, and straighten it - its back should form a right angle with the tailpiece end of the violin top, when viewed from the side.

You've got guts to try to make that violin playable, and you will know a lot about violins by the time you are done! Good luck, and have fun. We all DO feelf or your wife, however - tell her she has the sympathy of every family member of every student learning the violin!
Shirley

[Keln]

Thank you both for your replies. Yes, I am actually happy I got a lousy violin, because as one of you said, I am learning alot about violins in a short amount of time since I have had to do alot of research that I would not have done had this thing been playable right out of the box. It's like when I started messing with computers and upgrading them because I couldn't afford good ones. Now I've learned so much about them, I can build computers, good ones, for much much less than they sell for. Now when I am ready to buy a good violin, I should know what I am looking for.

To answer your question, it is a new violin I got on ebay. But it's cheap as I said, so I will have to make modifications. I talked to a master luthier by email yesterday, and he told me to bring it on in and he will have a look at it and see if he can make any modifications to make it work better. He said he doesn't know how much he would charge to set up the bridge I have with notches, but he said a new bridge and him setting it up would only be $15, so I might just do that. I already broke the E string yesterday as well, just from tuning it. It broke at the peg. I've read online in other places that E strings break alot, but I was wondering if you guys agree with that sentiment? I bought one that cost a couple of dollars, it's a "Red Label" medium E steel string. The dominant was $12, a bit out of my price range for a string, I don't pay that much for good guitar strings.

[jethro]

Look at your pegs. If the little hole the string goes into has a square edge
that sharp edge may be making a too sharp raduis and making the string
harden there and break. If they are sharp corners take pag out and take a small drill bit in your fingers (1/8 inch maybe) and spin it on the edge of the hole on both sides till you get a little curved radius at the mouth of the hole. This should prevent E or others from breaking there.

If you want to cut your own notches in the bridge top- take a piece of 400
grit sandpaper- fold it and flatten the fold hard- and use the edge as a file.
Make a half round notch as waide as the string and half the depth. Put some super glue on the notch for E and A to prevent the strings from
burrowing in . (let it dry well before you string. !) Cutting bridges is a
real adventure- try it - it is fun ! I'm learning more each day !
Maybe your luth will show you how !
Good luck !

T

[Becky]

You may not be ready to spend that much on good violin strings yet, but for future reference, good violin strings make a huge difference. I too wish violin strings were priced more like guitar strings. My brother plays the guitar and I must admit I'm jealous of how little he spends on quality strings. Violin strings are just more expensive than guitar and it's something you may just have to clench your teeth and get over. Until you're able to notice a difference, stick with the cheaper strings. Red Labels are a good student-level brand. Good choice.
When you take your violin to the luthier, ask him to check not only the pegs, but also the nut to make sure that is smooth too. Jethro was right on about rough spots on the violin leading to string breakage.
Jethro, I've never heard of using superglue to prevent the strings from burrowing in...where did you get that tip from? Do you make your grooves, add the superglue, and just put the strings in after it dries, or do you smooth the superglue before putting the strings on?
If you do try to fit your own bridge, make sure you have the right measurements for string distance and know how to get the right curvature...otherwise you could end up with a lot of unneeded difficulties when you try to play.
good luck!

[jethro]

Hi Becky
Someone on the Violinmaking part of the forum threw out the super
glue idea. I works really well. I usualy cut and polish the grooves
(400grit and then 600 or 1000 grit) then super glue the E and A . I put
a TINY bit on the top of the groove and a slightly larger spot on the front
and back about 1 mm below the groove to harden the wood immediately
below the string- thinking that's where the wood will be in compression
if the string burrows in. Then I give a little more cut with 600 grit just to
re establish the roundness of the groove. The glue tends to fill the groove
to be less of a half circle. I usualy sight down from nut to bridge and mark the E and G heights and then take the bidge off and draw the curve
with a template connecting the end marks.

Also watch that the nut is very slightly funnel shaped on the edge which
faces the bridge. I think you want a few degrees of roll over downward.
I cut one a few weeks ago which had the back of the groove not quite
paraless with the string. When I tightened the string the edge of the nut
grabbed the outer winding and held it which kind of " skinned" off the
outer winding and slid it about 6 mm - which exposed the next layer of
windings below- of coarse ruining the string. So now I dress the bridge
side a few degrees steeper than the the string- so the string can;t catch at the edge. ( I have awkwardly described this- maybe not clearly ! ?)
I hope you can see the picture I tried to paint !

Also use a charcoal drawing pensil on the grooves of both bridge and nut.
It lifts/ seperates and lubricates !

Tim