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Gizmo
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 92
Location: North Carolina
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pdinphx
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Tension |
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Great link ... better have a stout bridge for those Zyex Heavy's!
PJ |
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pdinphx
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: |
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Here's an interesting twist ... I opened a package from Pirastro yesterday, and lo and behold! A free set of Passiones!
PJ
Phoenix, AZ
Blue Line String Players |
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Gizmo
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 92
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Watching ? |
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They must have been reading this thread !
I'll have to watch the mail !
Maybe I'll try the free-bee route again.
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I NEVER PRACTICE. I'M NOT FAMOUS YET. |
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pdinphx
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Update:
I've had the Dominants on since last Saturday -- and granted, it's only been three days -- but the strings still have that irritating metallic edge. And warmth? What warmth?
I'm less and less impressed with the Westminster E (which I installed with the Dominants). Unlike the Hill E, the Westminster has a tendency to sound shrill and thin when you need it to sound precisely the opposite.
Hopefully, the Dominants will warm up a bit. I'll give it two weeks ... if there isn't significant improvement, I'll probably give the Passiones a shot.
In retrospect, the Corelli Vivace's really didn't sound so bad ...
PJ
Phoenix, AZ |
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Gizmo
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Posts: 92
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: No surprise |
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I would be surprised if the Dominants settled down to your satisfaction.
If that is the case, then before abandoning them, try using a tourte mute and see what happens (?)
Curious in NC
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I NEVER PRACTICE. I'M NOT FAMOUS YET. |
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pdinphx
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I often play with a mute, since much of my practice time is after the kids have gone to bed (.. and, as is the case with most new violins, mine sounds like a shotgun blast ..)
I'm pretty sure the Dominants will be coming off next week, to be replaced by the Passiones. In the end, I will probably use a combination of the Passiones (G and D), with an undetermined A (.. any recommendations? ..) and either the Hill E, Gold Label E or Passione E.
I've heard that Anne Sophie Mutter went to a viola Corelli A for her last recording ... maybe the low tension created a deeper, warmer sound? Of course, she is playing the Emiliani ...
PJ
Phoenix, AZ |
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Gizmo
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Posts: 92
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Mute |
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My Passione "A" is now settled down and I would judge it as a "superior" "A" string. I know that Pirastro often supplies tiny felt or rubber damper donuts to tame their "A" strings but I did not see that for the Passione "A". I requested a free set (?) of trial Passiones so I have to wait and see what happens. I'm really favoring my Eudoxa "G" which is really nice to listen to and may not give it up in any case.
My question about a mute was "loaded". My prejudice is that some muting can help a violin by suppressing (unfriendly) harmonics and a tourte mute is not too large to kill the sound. It might be that most violins contain a small fraction of the necessary water content and tend to sound shrill (?) ( My wife says I sound better with a mute and might even improve with two mutes !! )
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I NEVER PRACTICE. I'M NOT FAMOUS YET. |
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Gizmo
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 92
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Tension |
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pdinphx
Your report about the Corelli viola "A" set off a bell here.
I found some friendly viola/violin tension tables at the Super Sensitive site and their viola tensions are, in general, higher than violin.
HOWEVER, the frequency formula (D'Darrio) says I would need less tension to run viola strings because of the shorter violin. That would be in about the ration of 14:16.
In addition, the whole subject raises many questions in my mind about optimal string (set) tensions vs. (viola) length (?)
Incidentally, I have no smarts about "E" strings because they all sound the same to me.
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I NEVER PRACTICE. I'M NOT FAMOUS YET. |
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pdinphx
Junior Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Sadly, just a few months after the last post to this thread, I stopped playing the violin (again!) and resumed my quest to becoming the world's next David Gilmour.
Alas, 3 years later, I'm back playing the violin. Same violins, same bows, same music ... but my quest for the perfect set of strings continues!
If I'm reading the string color charts correctly, my Mahr is currently strung with an Obligato D and G, a Passione A and a Westminster E. All in all, not a bad combination .. though I would not describe the sound as really warm or dark.
I have Eudoxa starks on order and will try these next ... it will be interesting to see how contemporary wood responds to old school gut.
Pj
Phoenix, AZ |
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Lemuel
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| pdinphx wrote: | Sadly, just a few months after the last post to this thread, I stopped playing the violin (again!) and resumed my quest to becoming the world's next David Gilmour.
Alas, 3 years later, I'm back playing the violin. Same violins, same bows, same music ... but my quest for the perfect set of strings continues!
If I'm reading the string color charts correctly, my Mahr is currently strung with an Obligato D and G, a Passione A and a Westminster E. All in all, not a bad combination .. though I would not describe the sound as really warm or dark.
I have Eudoxa starks on order and will try these next ... it will be interesting to see how contemporary wood responds to old school gut.
Pj
Phoenix, AZ |
Pj, welcome back to the forum. Your long break in playing reminds me about myself.
Obligato strings have red/black spiral threading at the tailpiece end. At the peg end, the Obligato D and G are rose and brown color respectively. The Passion A has a white with brown spiral at tailpiece end and black color at peg end.
From reading this thread, it would appear that your Mahr responds better to strings with lower tension. Evah Pirazzi has a higher tension than Obligato. Violino has even lower tension than Obligato. I have used all three, and the Violino is the darkest. According to Pirastro literature, Violino is the warmest of the three.
According to a luthier that I am in touch with, Chorda gut is the darkest, followed by Gold, then Eudoxa and finally Olive which are brilliant. Using gut strings (such is Eudoxa in my experience) can make an instrument respond slower as if there is a slight resistance from note to note.
Please let me know how you make out with your Eudoxa set. |
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pdinphx
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Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Lemuel,
Thank you for the reply and welcome.
I grew up playing a French violin, strung with Pirastro Golds ... I'm not even sure that, as a teenager, I was aware of other string options.
I, too, am very curious about the sound of Eudoxas from a newer violin. I read your excellent exchange with Anton in another post regarding gut strings, and wonder if my Mahr has a 'thin' or 'thick' top.
paul |
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AntonPolezhayev
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Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 53
Location: Long Island NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Quest for Strings |
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| pdinphx wrote: | Greetings from Phoenix!
I've been lurking for awhile and thought I'd solicit for some help ...
After a fifteen year respite, I've finally returned to the violin. Everything seems to be coming back nicely -and- it would appear, at first blush, that my playing is now informed by a decade's worth of experiences, joys and woes.
I recently purchased a 2006 Walter Mahr, which came strung with Evah's. As the violin is already brash and edgy, the strings sounded LOUD and one dimensional. Interestingly, I enjoyed the tone much more when I played with a mute.
The Evah's found their way onto my 1920 Nicolas Pierre, which I played eexclusively in my younger days (for almost 20 years). This violin's tone has always been described as sweet, melodious and loving ... but lacking in projection. The Evah's found a new life on the Pierre; they are much richer, fuller and sonorous than they were on the 2006 Mahr. And consistent with everyone's experience, the Evah's improved projection exponentially (.. I'm sure! ..)
At any rate, I'm considering a set of gut strings to warm up and round out the tone of my Mahr. Of course, I've considered the new Passiones and the Olivs. My luthier is trying to sell me on the Vision Heavys as a viable synthetic alternative; I suppose if I went this route, the Vision Titaniums and Obligatos would also be a consideration.
I realize that it's next to impossible to make an assessment without actually hearing the violin (and knowing my expectations), but with what I've provided, any thoughts? I'd appreciate any and all feedback ...
PJ
Phoenix, AZ
Blue Line String Players |
Depends on the violin and what sound you're looking for. The only way is to string it up with dozens of different strings and compare the sound and feel.
I have heard some violins sound loud and bright with "tame" Passionne or even Eudoxa strings. I have heard violins that choke and produce no sound with the "loud" Eva strings... As one of the leading string experts and president of American violin makers and dealers association Bill Monical frankly confessed to me: "We all just don't know very much about strings"
Interesting sidenote to give more food for thought:
Yesterday I played a recital on medium Dominants with heavy Westminster E, a rather standard combo. Immediately after concert I strung up the violin with the Heifetz set-up (a real, UNcovered stiff yellow gut from Gamut Medium D and medium+ A Lyon gut, Goldbrokat E and Olive G)
I played for several people right in that very poor acoustics hall to compare sound. All people that participated in this test VASTLY preferred the raw gut over Dominants (nylon and metal)
Amazing experience! All said gut was richer sound, louder, fuller, more detailed, more pleasant to the ear etc etc etc etc etc
Don't know if forum rules allow links, but for those interested in finding out about these strings that Heifetz swore by and the very same kind Paganini and Kreisler also absolutely insisted on:
http://www.gamutstrings.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GMS&Product_Code=A131_&Category_Code=1VIOLIN
The other underrated violin string is Olive.
What happens to 99.9% of violinists when they try Olives and especially real uncovered gut like Gamut is shock. Like a person who never squatted and only did leg press they are stunned by the strange sound and feel of these strings. Like a person who never ran but only rode a car they experience discomfort and abandon gut strings  This is very common and unfortunate, as what we hear under our ear is not what the listener hears a few feet away, and playing discomfort goes away as one adjusts etc.
And of course the set-up is often a problem. All too common thin soundpost and thin bridge made from light colored modern (too wet) wood will often make gut strings sound worse. This continues to contribute to violinists rejecting gut strings in favor of nylon and metal.
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Jack Rushing
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Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pdinphx wrote: | Here's an interesting twist ... I opened a package from Pirastro yesterday, and lo and behold! A free set of Passiones!
PJ
Phoenix, AZ
Blue Line String Players |
You're very fortunate. I have bought dozens of Pirastro Strings from
International Violin Co. this past two or three years, and have never
received a free sample set of any kind. Of course I know they cannot
do this for everyone. Maybe they will draw my name out of the hat next
round.
Re- Pirastro's Violino strings. I think they are one of the finest strings on
the market today. They require almost no breaking in, are light and responsive. have a warm, rich sound, and project well. Last a long time
too.
P.S. I am not compensated in any way by Pirastro |
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Lemuel
Site Admin
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 515
Location: Mt. Elgin, Ontario
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| Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Quest for Strings |
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| AntonPolezhayev wrote: | ...I have heard some violins sound loud and bright with "tame" Passionne or even Eudoxa strings. I have heard violins that choke and produce no sound with the "loud" Eva strings... As one of the leading string experts and president of American violin makers and dealers association Bill Monical frankly confessed to me: "We all just don't know very much about strings"......
....Don't know if forum rules allow links, but for those interested in finding out about these strings that Heifetz swore by and the very same kind Paganini and Kreisler also absolutely insisted on:
http://www.gamutstrings.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GMS&Product_Code=A131_&Category_Code=1VIOLIN
The other underrated violin string is Olive.
What happens to 99.9% of violinists when they try Olives and especially real uncovered gut like Gamut is shock. Like a person who never squatted and only did leg press they are stunned by the strange sound and feel of these strings. Like a person who never ran but only rode a car they experience discomfort and abandon gut strings This is very common and unfortunate, as what we hear under our ear is not what the listener hears a few feet away, and playing discomfort goes away as one adjusts etc.
And of course the set-up is often a problem. All too common thin soundpost and thin bridge made from light colored modern (too wet) wood will often make gut strings sound worse. This continues to contribute to violinists rejecting gut strings in favor of nylon and metal. |
  Anton! Welcome back!
Thanks for the interesting link on the strings Heifetz used. Links are allowed. We just prohibit spamming of commercial links.
Your comments on Eva Pirazzi's are surprising to me. These violins you heard them from...I assume that they were relatively high quality violins, and properly setup. Was there anything unique about the violins?
In regards to Passionne strings, how have you found them generally as an option to gut strings? I have not tried this set yet. Pirastro states that it has the tuning stability of synthetic strings but has all the richness of gut strings (??). I am not talking about the exceptional anamoly, but the general case. |
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