Violin Forum/Message Board

[Fiddledeedee]

Ok...I'm a newbie. 38 yr old female. But here's my thing. I've been playing violin now for 2 years. I seriously cannot put this thing down. I started with a student violin, upgraded to a intermeditt 1 year ago that I purchased from a luthier. and at this moment I own 6 total. The last 5 came with-in the past 3 months. 2 are in sad shape, and need major restoration.

Anyways. I'm very interested in repairing and restoring violins as a hobbie and possibly as a professional years from now. I have looked for schools on line and for apprentice opportunities but having a family makes it almost impossible to travel and take up 1-3 years away from my 5 yr. old, husband, and much needed job, to go to school. There are no schools like this in my area ( cannot afford them anyways) and the closest luthier is about a 2hr. drive and they are not looking for an apprentice with no expierence in the field. I did purchase a few books about making, repairing, etc. And have been to the libary many times, but I need more then just books. The books all seem to repeat after you read them all.

I guess really I'm looking for your opinion on what to do? I hate to give up on dream, but I'm lost on what to try next. Any sugestions would be great.

Oh and sorry for the mis-spellings. It's not one of my best quailtys.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Chet Bishop]

No need for it to remain a dream. I didn't get started until I was 45 (I'm 53 now). One person you could contact would be Ed Campbell of Boiling Springs, PA. He may be too far away to be a regularhelp, but he has been a big help to a lot of would-be luthiers. He's got a workshop every spring in Tucson, AZ, but I don't know how many more years he will keep it up.

You could get Henry Strobel's books, and begin there. I kept running into the comment "...the best way to learn is to get a job in a violin shop...". That may be true, but it simply not a viable option for most people, and it presupposes that a luthier will want to hire a know-nothing eager beginner at my age...(they don't).

So I went on e-bay and bought a bunch of broken or neglected violins...70 of them. I bought tools and materials as I needed them, learned from books and online forums, went to workshops, attended classes as they became available, and bugged a lot of good luthiers for tidbits, and direction. Mostly they have been quite patient and friendly.

You can start where you are, and see how you like it...no need for heavy investments. If you want a real "baby-food" level start, go to Stewart-MacDonald (google them), and get a violin kit...it is mostly complete, probably not particularly good, but it is in pieces, so you can at least see how a violin goes together. You can put it together, practice gluing, varnishing, set-up, etc.

Use the beaters you already own for repair practice. Treat each as if it is a priceless one-of-a-kind master instrument, and you will learn good practices and skills for the time when you actually get to work on something that is worth something.

When something turns out well, sell it, and use the money for more tools and books-- or a trip to a workshop. My original 70 instruments (most of them) gradually made their ways back into the wide world, where people are playing them. I didn't make any money on most of them, but it was very cheap tuition for what I learned.

Good luck with it all.

Sincerely,

Chet

[FiddleDoug]

Your location in Pennsylvania puts you in reasonable striking distance to two very good summer programs. That's how I started two years ago. I would highly recommend the first two weeks of the program at Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts. I attended these two weeks in 2006, and I learned an incredible amount. The University of New Hampshire programs are also excellent. Take a couple weeks for yourself in June some year. You'll be glad you did.
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Fiddledeedee]

Thanks for your responses. I'm going to keep at it!!

Chet your information and story only pushes me more. Boiling Springs is not too far. It's approx a 4 hr. drive, but yes his work shops are in AZ. I have e-mailed him but I didn't get a response. I will try again.

I'm going to look for those books you mentioned and start collecting more repair subjects, tools and supplies. I'm going to look into that kit also.

FiddleDoug, I looked again into those schools and the classes are at this time out of my range. Plus leaving my 5yr old and taking off work for 1-2 weeks is not an option at this point. But I do plan on taking workshop classes as soon as I can. Do they only hold the classes in summer? By fall I may be able to take on at least one class.

Thnks Again Guys!! Your input has been great. Now to go shopping
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[jethro]

Dee: don't give up .... the more you do it the more fun and fascinating it
gets. Take Chet's advice and get a 150 $ stew Mac violin kit. Once
you see how to put it togethrt that will de-mystify how to get one appart.
There are many small skills to learn. Also, find and play the best violins
you can find. Get used to how the good ones feel different than the poor ones. I wanted to build a violin since I was small but I never had a clue
or even saw one built. I finaly tried just to give myself something to
do after my dad died. I saw the book by Bruce Ossman and it looked
so simple it didn't scare me away. I think it would be a good first book
( it's like the "boys' first book of violinmaking" )
I started when I was 44. I just finnished the seccond one and it is allmost
pretty good. Not world class but I don't think anyone will laugh at it.
Just start ...... you will learn as you go..... use your God-given intuition!
Good luck !

Tim

[jessupe goldastini]

again the workers comp, cal osha, liability insurance, contractor side of me comes out......

i would always stress that ANYONE with perceverence and patience can build a violin, however....that being said....

THE INFORMATION I AM GIVING YOU IS NOT INTENDED TO DISCOURAGE YOU, MAKE ASSUMPTION ABOUT YOUR LEVEL OF SKILL, ETC....I AM JUST TRYING TO INSTILL REALITY IN YOUR BRAIN ABOUT WHAT YOU "WANT" TO DO...

first there is a certain romanticism related to the violin, both in playing and making them, we may often hear....gee i want to make them, or gee i want to start playing...etc...

but rarely would we hear someone say, gee i think i want to start building custom cabinets, or frame a 4/12 vaulted ceiling,or lay wood floors etc...those projects are,nt that romantic...but if you want to build a violin, thats basically what your saying you want to do......IT IS A CONSTRUCTION PROJECT,that has zero room for mistakes, make no mistake about it...

what does this involve....

wood science,{particularly spruce and maple} how is wood effected by its enviroment, the structure of wood and how finish knowledge translates to that.

reading plans, understanding measurement and how to read, transfer and execute

TOOL SKILL* developing hardwire skills related to using RAZOR sharp hand tools and some power tools, developement of a safe comfort level with them

*tool skill can be learned via practice, but is the most under estimated part of any construction project, regardless of the type of project, various projects will require varying types of skill with various types of tools...

violin making is primarily done with hand tools, very sharpe ones, careful escalation into their use must be aquired to achieve safe skilled operation...

prior to buying any books,tools or materials for constructing a violin i would get some scrape wood{maple}, one sharpe gouge chisel and a good utiity knife and a japanesse pull saw....all availible at a good hardware store....

practice skill

1.draw a straight line cross grain, cut it with the saw

2.draw a curve with a coffe can. then scoot it over just 1/16"draw another.....

with your utility knife CAREFULLY score both lines deeply, as to mimick purfling{ the strip of wood on the edge of the violin}

3. clamp wood to table, scoop with your gouge AWAY FROM YOURSELF....cross grain....try to make an even bowl with your scrap

if you can get comfortable doing these things, without getting hurt, you can definitley make a fiddle...

this work does entail LOTS OF HAND GRIP STREGNTH...if you have any types of issues related to injury etc, carpal tunnel etc...be aware....
do not get into a hand squeezing contest with a violin maker

good luck....

perhaps you know all this, but i always assume not, i just want people to be safe....job saftey is #1....eye protection, ear protection, and dust/chemical mask....if your going to die by the sword, just make it so its not your own:}

[Mat Roop]

I agree with Chet 100 %...
This book is indispensible as is this site

http://www.amazon.ca/Useful-Measurements-Violin-Makers-Reference/dp/0962067326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205022933&sr=1-1

http://violinbridges.co.uk/ref.php

Keep asking questions... you will get there at a satisfying pace...
Cheers, Mat

[Fiddledeedee]

Thanks again for all your comments.

jessupe goldastini,
Thank you for the heads up!! I can understand where you are coming from. I have little knowledege of how wood works with it's environment and the structure. I will do some investigating into this. I don't really want to build them. I more want to fix and/or restore them. I know that understanding the way woods composition works should come into effect wether building or repairing. So again I will do some reading on this.

As for measurement I have a book now that explaines some of it very little. I just ordered a book (Henry Strobel's ) that has to alot about the measurements and plans. I hope it cover it all. Or atleast a wide spectrum of it.

I do have expierence using sharp tools however. Different from luthier tools I use siccors, razor combs, blades, etc. I do pet grooming full time and need to be quite careful working with live animals. I've got quite a steady hand since I've been at it for 17 yrs. I know the tools are quite different, and used differently but I'm willing to try a new skill.

You advice on getting some wood and tools to pratice with. Thanks. I will do just that. It does sound like a great trial for myself.

I am concerned about the hand strength to be honest. After working with animals and trying to hold on to the wiggle worms, my hands over time are starting with tendinitus. At least that what my Dr. thinks. I too have an very strong grip. I would hope it not be needed as often with repair, but I will be aware of the problems.

Thanks again for the heads up. Alot of it was information I did not know and I appreciate the help and ideas.
Kudo's
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[KenN]

After 30 years of turning and pulling handles on machines my elbows are painfull all of the time. The only time I don't notice it is when I'm working! I bought a bunch of cheap wood for the backs and necks of the 6 ones I started. Tthe bellys are "real" violin wood because they are much less expensive and perfectly quartered spruce is hard to find otherwise. That way you don't have to worry about scrapping a $100 piece of wood. I bought fittings for the first and they cost more than all of the wood did.
I keep learning stuff all the time. I don't see how it ever could become boring.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

[Fiddledeedee]

I would never take one a another player's violin without being professionally trained first. Honestly..I'd be too scared too. I wouldn't want that responability. I'll just tinker with my 2 sick violins for now.

I did speak with my husband and I am going to start putting money away for those classes. I'm hoping for 2 classes come spring next year. And hopefully 2 more the following year. I know it's a year away...but I'm already excited about it.

Thanks again for everyones input. You have all made me feel welcome in your forum and I hope to visit often for advice and to share my own knowledge for others as well.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Barry Dudley]

One more suggestion on an indispensable, detailed, how to book is "The Art of Violin Making" by Roy Courtnall.

[Chet Bishop]

Fiddledee;

Scrape together your spare cash and buy a copy of "Violin Restoration: A Manual for Violin Makers" by Hans Weisshaar and Margaret Shipman -

This book is very expensive, but is specifically geared toward what you want to learn. Think of the cost as tuition to a very specialized school--and less than you would pay for one term at a community college. Then treat every junker violin as if it were a one-of-a-kind handmade master instrument, and use the principles taught in that book.

If you have questions, the guy to ask is Jeffrey Holmes (on this forum). Whatever he says, goes, in my book. This is no flattery--we've never met, but I have seen his work, and I have heard what bona fide experts have to say about his work--if I have a question about restoration, he is one of the top three I would ask, because he actually knows what he is talking about AND is willing/able to teach.

[Dave Chandler]

You can use interlibrary loan to access almost any book ever published, just need to know title and author and go to your local library. Costs a couple bucks for mailing it back and forth, but hey, great way to check them out. I did that with all Stroebel's books, the only disappointment was that several pages were missing -- the table of useful measurements (argh!).
_________________
Dave in the Blue Ridge
Southern Violin Association

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to the next with no loss of enthusiasm" Winston Churchill

"I took the road less travelled, and now I don't know where I am." Marco Polo

[Andres Sender]

Just a tired old (but still necessary) caveat about the 'Violin Restoration' book, the technical principles are very useful, but the conservation ethos is not a reflection of practice to be found in more enlightened shops. Essentially you don't want to remove original wood or varnish if you can at all help it. (The degree to which this is an issue depends on the value of the instrument of course, but in the end the sort of high-end techniques discussed in that book are going to be applied to better instruments, and with those conservation is the name of the game.)