Violin Forum/Message Board

[Shirley]

Hello - would any of you have the time to explain to me how an old instrument (1790) can look so pretty? Under the chin rest it sure doesn't look pretty - all old and mucky-looking, but the rest is shiny and lovely. Not too shiny on the front, but the back is new-looking.

I just don't know if it has been refinished, no comments about that. It sounds glorious, but I also see older instruments than these being played that sparkle like the stars. Is there a secret? Is it just the result of good upkeep?

I think I saw some reference somewhere to rubbing the wood gently with an abrasive?

I really am extremely interested and curious about this, and would greatly appreciate any comments or info. Thanks so much!

Shirley

[Jack H.]

which instrument are you talking about?
Do you have pictures or a link?

Some instruments we very well taken care of, violas especially.
The Archinto Strad dates earlier than the date you give and it is in AMAZING shape.
SOme people are just more careful with their instruments.
They wash their hands before playing, the wipe the instrument after playing, they take care of small issues with the instrument quickly before they get to be a big bother.

These instruments mostly come from wealthy families.

It could have been refinished, it could be a newer instrument with an older label. Mostly it is propper maintenance.
As for scouring the wood to help keep it young looking... forget about that.
No abrasives should be used on an instrument that has already been finished unless it is the maker using some schleifpaste to cut the varnish.

New instruments or replacement pasrts are somtimes polished with pummice before varnishing. but this is a different story.

J

[MANFIO]

Yes, don't touch the finish, don't use polishes or cleaners, leave it as it is, use just a soft rag to clean it.
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[FiddleDoug]

First, are you sure it's from 1790? Second, if it's nice everywhere except under the chinrest, I would be a little suspicious that something has been done to it. How about the usual wear areas? Scratches around the center of the back, shoulder area, upper treble bout?
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[Shirley]

Thank you all! I see that it is, indeed possible to have an old instrument that is in good condition, although I will check on the refinished possibility. I feel extremely fortunate to have such a small viola with such a big beautiful (when played by someone else ) sound.

This is a viola that I have just acquired through Weaver's House of Violins outside DC - it's "papers" show verification by Hill Brothers in London in 1943 - no label, but a maker's faint stamp on the back, beneath the button. It is described then as in an "excellent state of preservation."

My own excellent luthier here in Denver has looked at it briefly, and I will certainly have him do so more thoroughly, and ask him the question about the difference in condition between most of the body, and the part under the chinrest.

AND, I will certainly not try to buff the wood with anything - especially after seeing your comments!

I will continue to care for this one as I have my preceding fiddles - with a soft rag and and clean hands.

I could of course post a photo or two if anyone thinks that would help you all make suggestions.

Thank you all so much!

[Mat Roop]

Please post some pics Shirley... Love to see them...Cheers, Mat

[MANFIO]

And please, don't let it be French Polished, everytime you take it to a luthier ask him to not French Polish your instrument or proceed to a "heavy cleaning" that will destroy the texture of the varnish.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/7875988@N02/with/464604020/

[Shirley]

Will do, Manfio. And Mat, I will try to get some photos here.

My husband came up with the possibility that the viola was played for a while back there without a chinrest, and maybe that is part explanation for the crudy look under there - what do you think?

Thanks for the responses - I'll get going on the photos. Shirley

[MANFIO]

Yes, chinrests are a new sensation in the violin world, they may be no more than 150 years old, I think, perhaps much less.

When violins were not fitted with a chinrest, the players beard acted as a sandpaper to wear the varnish in this region. Sometimes the varnish on the right side of the tailpiece is also worn out because some players used to put their chins under the left side also.
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[FiddleDoug]

Don't take this wrong, because I think that violas are GREAT instruments, but this could be fit into the long list of viola jokes. "Why did the old viola still look so great after 200 years?- Because it was never taken out of the case."
_________________
Doug Wall

www.wallindependent.com

[MANFIO]

Well, in general violas are much more well preserved than violins, in general. We can learn a lot from well preserved violas, such as the Andrea Guarneri Tenor in the Shrine to Music Museum, or the viola Medicea in Firenze.
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[Michael Darnton]

I'm suspecting from the description, lacking photos, that what Shirley is calling "new" looking is an instrument that has been excessively polished, over and over until it's totally smooth.

Fine old violins are not modern cars and telephones--they didn't start out smooth and shiny--and well-preserved ones don't look that way. For reference, here's the best-preserved, most original Stradivari violin in existence:



and the viola that Manfio's talking about, which is in almost equally-good condition:

[MANFIO]

Hi Michael! I've sent you a copy of an article by Charles Beare in wich he discusses texture, overpolishing, French polishing, etc. Have you received it?
_________________
www.manfio.com

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7875988@N02/with/464604020/

[Michael Darnton]

Yes, thank you.

[Jack H.]