Violin Forum/Message Board

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Sacconi's book claims that Stradivari would coat the inside of his violins prior to gluing the top with 2 coats of the same preparation that he put on the outside of his violins... controversial as his thinking is on what that was...

Basic cabinetry wisdom is that coating both sides of a wood panel with the same preparation is beneficial to avoid subsequent warpage due to differential moisture absorption.

Is there any good evidence that cremonese instruments were routinely coated on the inside with anything?

Best regards,

MANFIO · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:

I've always used Sacconi's vernice bianca on the inside (but not the silicate), but I'm thinking about not using it on the viola I'm going to close this week.

Samuel Zygmuntowicz said in the Dartington Conference (1995) that:

"Carl Becker certainly thought that someting water soluble was used. Renè (Morel) thought that something resinous was applied; they're usually dirty so it's quite hard to tell. Personally I can't resist the opportunity to make some effect on the inside, so I do use something, different things. And yes it does effect the sound because it changes the way the plate vibrates". (I added Morel, I think when he said Renè he was talking about Renè Morel).

As usual, violin making is a solitary journey... you may listen to opinions here and there but, eventually, you will be alone with a gouge in your hands and the wood in front of you.
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Chet Bishop · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:

"violin making is a solitary journey... you may listen to opinions here and there but, eventually, you will be alone with a gouge in your hands and the wood in front of you."

Now that is a profound thought, Manfio. Pretty well applies to life in general, doesn't it? And to all of our decisions...but I really like the way you have phrased it.

And, ultimately, that is one of the things I like about it...being left alone with a gouge in my hand, and the wood in front of me.

mapleleaf_gal · Member Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 73 Location: tucson, az

i am glad to see this post. i am getting ready to seal the inside of my current violin. and will keep my eye out for what other peoples opinions are. i have used propolis for years. but am wondering if i should change that....
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MANFIO · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

Many contemporary Italians apply propolis inside their instruments. I would like to hear something about that from Michael Darnton and Jeffrey, I think Michael leaves the inside of his instruments untreated, David Burgess does the same, I think.
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arglebargle · Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:

I haven't used anything on the inside of my violins for some time.
In the past I have used potassium silicate, spirit varnish, propolis soap, varnish/pumice mix.
I am now happy with the results I am getting using nothing. It never really felt right to me to coat the inside. None of the makers I've worked with ever used anything either.
Sometimes it's o.k. to not do anything to a violin.
Shocked

And it saves some time.

violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

I would suggest to you that the violins that are very very old, and had some re-graduation work done to them very early on in their lifetime, would loose any interior coating that they may have had, yet today we still enjoy them.

If this was a critical component then we would be hearing all kinds of stories about violins dying because the interior coating was disturbed/removed.

Since this is not the case, then I would think that the gain or loss from such interior coatings is small either way.

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Violinarius:

Your argument sounds right... however, when talking about plates that are so thin, 1.1 mm sides, 2.5 mm top etc, it's also plausible that these "preparations" would penetrate the wood entirely. If this happened, any re-graduating would not remove the impregnated stuff...

Jack H. · Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject:

violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

actonern · Super Member Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 444

Violinarius:

I don't know... but a rosin oil, for example, easily goes straight through the ribs. Hold them up against a bright light and they're quite transluscent...like paper that has been oiled.

violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

MANFIO · Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:15 am Post subject:

Sacconi's vernice bianca penetrates deeply in the wood, it virtually "disappears" inside the wood.
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violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

violinarius · Member Joined: 14 Dec 2007 Posts: 171

I ran across this while reading up on the violin.

http://www.rsc.org/Education/EiC/issues/2005July/violins.asp

"However, our results do not rule out the possibility that the wood used was natural and only the finished instrument was wetted with an aqueous salt solution many times both inside and out. It is very unlikely that brushing an aqueous solution onto the interior surface of the instrument would penetrate deep enough to change appreciably the mineral composition of the deeper layers of wood. Moreover, violin makers tended to limit themselves to one aqueous brushing lest they jeopardise the integrity of the glue joints. " from above article under the paragraph tittled "To soak or not to soak?"