Violin Forum/Message Board

[Fiddledeedee]

Hello All,
I have a 3/4 size strad copy that has a few cracks in the belly. I'm going to use this violin as a pratice to fix it up. It's not worth anything but it will make a great pratice violin for me to work on. Anyway right now I'm trying to clean the rosin off the belly (I think it's rosin). It's thick, black and dull, and almost sticky or rubbery to the feel. I have looked online and only found information to use warm water a touch of soap and a soft tooth brush. I've bee at this for over an hour now and I'd have to say there's no difference. I didn't want to try anything harsh untill I asked the experts. What do you use to get this stuff off?
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Chet Bishop]

Try a little turpentine on a rag. If you are only using it on the black build-up, I doubt there will be any danger to the varnish. I know some people go to denatured alcohol, but that is really endangering the varnish. I have never tried Xylene, but I have heard of people using it...I wouldn't even know where to buy it.

My thinking (right or wrong) is that rosin is pine-pitch, essentially. Pitch is soluble in either turpentine or alcohol, but of the two, I think the turpentine (in small quantity, on a rag; not brushed on, or allowed to soak) is less dangerous to the varnish. (There are other solvents for pitch, but as I say, I have not used them. I'm pretty sure acetone would take it off, but I am equally sure it could take off the varnish.)

If you are careful, and treat each of your "beaters" as if they were really priceless instruments (minus the stress), then this will be a very good learning experience. Take your time and do each job right.

My first through-patch was on a fairly new, cheap chinese instrument. The family probably could have afforded to simply replace the instrument, but I chose to do the through-patch (Bad sound-post split-- the instrument got dropped), because I wanted the experience. I charged them very little, and figured it was cheap tuition. I saw that instrument a few years later, and was pleased to see that it was functioning very well, and the repair was all but invisible...it just looked like a scratch by the bridge. That was a good feeling. I learned a great deal, it cost no one, and saved a functioning student instrument.

[Fiddledeedee]

Thanks Chet

I don't have terpentine or any of the other stuff you mentioned, I can go get it however. I do have acetone. I can give that a try, but how do I know if it's taking the varnish off? Will it go directly down to the bare wood? Or just take the shine off? Not much of a shine there anyway. Like you said I am treating this as though it is a priceless instrument and I want to do this the right way. Can it be revarnished if it does come off? There are some deep nicks that I hope to eventually fix somehow too and I assume that I will have to touch those up with varnish as well.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Chet Bishop]

Ummm...I was saying NOT to use the acetone. I do think it will take off the varnish. Perhaps you can get away with it, if you are very careful, though. I would not recommend it, personally.

I think the turpentine will be much gentler, and safer, as well. Don't use any of these solvents without good ventilation, BTW...none of them are good for you, and some, Acetone and Denatured alcohol in particular, are downright dangerous.

[Fiddledeedee]

Thanks again Chet. I'll get to the store today and try the turpentine. As for ventilation I got that covered. I'll let ya know how it turns out. Then it's figureing out what to do next. There so much fixing this violin is going to need. From cracks in the belly to a loose neck with nails in it and a scroll that snaped in half at the peg holes, and a fracture in the upper rib. Boy did I pick out a sick one. But one with lots of learning
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[jessupe goldastini]

my thoughts

if you are going to restore it you should ask yourself to what degree

careful cleaning will not remove years of improper care, any good teacher will teach cleaning off rosin dust after every use....if not you will get what you have....

due to the fact that the rosin itself has strong adhesion properties and trace solvents both natural and chemical, the rosin where allowed to build up will eat into the varnish and in essence bond and or stain the finish down to the base coats

so the chances of removing the black goo without solvents and without damaging the finish are slim....can you clean it up ...yes...will it look alot different...probably not...depending on how long it was allowed to sit on the finish....

so now we ask...are we trying to do a seemless crack{s} repair with the original varnish intact?

are we going to take the rosin all the way off and expose base coats thus removing patina and color?...in essense much more finish touch up while leaving as much original finish as possible...

or....perhaps it might not be such a bad idea to completely refinish the fiddle as well as do the cracks...

this way you can practice complete striping...

it will make it easier to make the cracks dissappear{ you can "work" them in a raw wood state vrs finished}

and you can practice a complete finish...

if the varnish is spirt based it is as simple as {in a well ventalated room with no ignition sources} soaking rags in alchol and wiping it down aggressively constantly shifting the rag around, this will melt and wipe off all the old finish quick style....

all slovents....including xylene can be obtained at qaulity paint supply stores such as sherwin williams or other smaller local stores

this way you can make it look new...

unless you are trying to pretend that it is a qaulity finish you are trying to preserve, which is a skill set in itself and probably more real world and harder to do...

have fun

[Jack H.]

I use a cleaner of mineral oil, alcohol, turps, and water.
You have to be very careful with this, it can remove varnish, but it is milder than turps or alcohol at full strength.
Keep the solution away from the opened cracks, oil will mess up the posibility of getting a strong glue bond.

xylene works but it causes cancer and I generally use it on basses only, that is some STICKY rosin! especially when it is OLD. It can be gotten at any chemical supplier.

Slowly, so as not to inadvertently ruin the varnish.
always moisten rag away ( not over ) the instrument.
J

[Fiddledeedee]

Hi Jessupe..Boy...now I'm in a total toss up. Which is good. Part of learning. I somehow knew this was going to take alot of paticence and stradigy. Kida like a puzzle. I love puzzles!! But it's always nice to have an extra person slip in a piece.

I didn't think as far as to just remove the old varnish down to the wood. The books I have been reading have only talked about cleaning it and some information on how to make it blend in once the cracks were repaired. Again this is not an instrument of much value and the complete removal of the varnish may be a good idea afterall. Like you siad more pratice.

This is my first fixer upper. Would I strip the whole violin includidng ribs and back or just the face? I'm not sure I'd be able to blend a varnish (that I would make) to match the original that is still on there. I haven't tried the terpentine yet, yet I'm curious as how this may work too. But again like you said about hiding the crack repair. This may be a big deal beacuse the one belly crack seems as though it actually goes under itself an I'm afraid it may snap when I try to reset it. The other belly crack pertrudes upwards, and the one at the f-hole is the ony one I feel I can fix without more damage. If Iwas to stip it you mentioned alcohol. Is that just plain rubbing alcohol? I can always get the xylene too.
_________________
She could sing nothing but "Fiddle cum fee
The mouse has married the humble-bee"
by Halliwell

[Chet Bishop]

It is your fiddle, and your choice, but it might be a good exercise to treat it as if it is a good instrument, actually worth saving. If not, then Citri-solv works well for stripping-- but at that point you have crossed the line into bad practice, in my opinion.

I have only used that sort of plan when someone else has already put paint or some other sort of unacceptable finish on an instrument. And once when I myself had botched a varnish job on a new instrument, and simply wanted to start over.

Your call.

Chet

[chrisandcello]

Xylene can be had from auto factors....in the uk its available in a spray tin and called leveller...(for levelling paint finishes).
Its very powerful stuff....has its uses, but I would guess too strong for your needs...

[Janito]

'Terpenoid' brush cleaner works well (from artists' store).

Use a small amount on soft cloth; move carefully over a small area; stop and check frequently; wash off with damp clean cloth; let dry.

Repeat in adjacent area.

[Janito]

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[Janito]

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[Janito]

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[Janito]

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